Punishing the wrong person aibu

[Createsuser]

So this is for a friend but it’s lockdown and there’s not much else to do.

DF has two DC’s A- sensible, mature and B- impulsive funny and cheeky. She comes from quite a traditional family who are fairly strict. During a recent family Zoom call with the grandparents B made some off colour jokes then when the grandfather gave her a firm telling off hung up on him. The grandfather has now issued some punishments (don’t want to say what as it would be outing) to A and B. A wasn’t involved and told B off for being a fool and said she should have known the grandparents would be upset. So in essence A is now being punished for B’s behaviour which he didn’t agree with. The grandparents won’t listen to A’s side of the story. WWYD and Aibu to think this is unfair?

As a grandparent, I’d never ever issue any “punishment” to my grandchildren, without discussing it with their parents first. When in my care I may have said something like “ooh I don’t think mummy and daddy would lie you doing that” or something similar, but I think any disciplining is parents responsibility, other than giving guidance to avoid danger or gentle observations if I thought they were being rude. Some grandparents just can’t stop being control freaks, they’ve had their chance at being “in control” silly old sod 😂

It is not the grandparent’s job to issue punishments. Parents punish children, grandparents spoil them no matter what.

@Createsuser

I wish I had an exciting update but sadly they are still not speaking. Friend has read this and said a couple of posters really nailed it B has little filter and as 95% of her chatter is positive and funny just went for it and realised too late. She hung up because he was yelling at her.

Who was on this call?! Why did no-one stop B after the first whatever, why was GF allowed to yell so much it made his GD want to hang up on him and why was B allowed to hang up?! The adults sound as bad as the grown ups so it’s not much wonder they’re displaying the behaviour they are . I wouldn’t have been impressed if my DF had behaved like that and I would have told him to stop but equally children need to be able to take a b*locking when they’ve crossed a line but maybe no-one has to,d B where the lines are so they can’t really expect her to observe them 🤷🏻‍♀️

The grandparents sound utterly pathetic. They are CHILDREN, children do stupid things because they are immature and are still learning. My grandfather was very similar to this, conditional love and gifts bestowed / withdrawn depending on who was in favour. So toxic. The kids will be better off without them.

Perhaps the word 'Punishment' is misplaced.

If an extended family member is deliberately insulted or hurt by a child's actions/mockery towards themselves or others, don't they have the right and even responsibility to pull them up on that behaviour?

Maybe the GF should have discussed his 'punishment' with parents who then informs children that it is they, the parents, who are giving punishment but the idea that children get away with mocking others and hurting their feelings just because parents aren't present is frankly wrong.

Size of nose, colour of hair, a limp, a speech defect or even diff skin colour - What's acceptable?

I see GPs as safe 3rd parties who can also educate the young in their family - It's done with responsible love!

I sympathise with the kids. I've often said things because they were funny and then realised it was not a good idea later. Obvs I do this now less as an adult, and would also know to apologise, but I can imagine it happening in the heat of the moment. GP should have enough empathy to accept that B has now apologised. What else can B actually do?

Not a fan of GPs who punish kids for not acting the way they want them to, as some idealised little version of actual kids. Yes, they should be polite, but they're also human and make mistakes.

My FIL would react in the same way as the GP here and I'd be so annoyed with him.

So easily done as a child and grandparents being a bit detached and older don't perhaps have the presence of mind to think before they react, especially if they've always been a bit overly sensitive. Grandfather needs to accept apology and move on, to be at least as mature as the 11 year old. As for collective punishment, divide and rule, happily the older child also seems not to be falling fir this.

If an extended family member is deliberately insulted or hurt by a child's actions/mockery towards themselves or others, don't they have the right and even responsibility to pull them up on that behaviour?

Perhaps but that isn’t what happened here. B was tactless but not deliberately insulting her GF. From OP’s most recent update it seems B’s irreverence has been enjoyed until the GF felt himself to be the target.

How can the grandparents punish either child remotely?

Whilst B is probably now feeling suitably ashamed I think she has probably been punished enough with the frosty air and shouting and guilt at brother losing out.
GPS are massively overreacting to keep this going and are just damaging their relationship at a time when everyone is stressed.
Could you and friend try and do something nice for A as he seems to be acting very mature

@Lulu49 - the grandparents are paying for something (hobby/tech/something else - we don’t know what), and granddad has said he won’t pay for this any more for either child - cheeky B and A who did nothing wrong.

@Createsuser

It would be completely outing! As close as I can get, B starts singing sea shanties because they are popular on Reddit when Grandfather sunk his yacht last year and is cut up about it. B meant no harm and has of course apologised but Grandfather won’t forgive her.

Omg that is hilarious! GF needs to get a grip and stop acting like a petulant child 🙄

The grandfather is being unreasonable. It really is not his place to issue any punishment for a child who is not in his direct care.

Surely, if the parent was aware of what was said by whom, they should speak to the grandparent because if he's going to withhold something from two grandchildren when only one was at fault, then why not withhold from ALL of them? If he then says that that wouldn't be fair on those not involved in th 'joke' then the parent should point out that child A wasn't involved either so it's not fair on them either.

I do agree that grandparents don't really have the right to mete out punishments and if this were my father/child, I'd be telling him that it's not his place to do so and that I'd already given the child a talking to and as far as I'm concerned, the matter is over, in the past and he needs to accept that as much as the joke was (in his opinion) in bad taste, it was after all just that ... a joke!

Grow up grandad!

Depending on what was said and that is important , but my child had been cheeky / rude to a geamdparent not on purpose as id being described , then apologised and my parent was punishing both kids still incl the one who said nothing , I would be telling them to keep their gift and not call them
Back until they can actually behave like a grown up.

B later apologised but the grandparents aren’t speaking to them, and only communicating through the written word

The grandparents need to grow up and deal with the issue sensibly!!!

To be honest, if my dad reacted that way to my child, I'd be having words. 11 year olds test boundaries, kids says stuff and kids can be cheeky. Correct them and move on. What kind of adult doesn't accept an 11 year olds apology or is so sensitive that they take that much offence to something a kid says?
What kind of message are they sending out to both kids? The grandparents sound needy, but immature and stroppy and over indulged. They need a reality check. I'd prob have a word with them, tell
Them to get a grip and then cease contact for a bit until they sorted their own behaviour out, have a word with 11 year old about cheekiness and then have a word with older kid to explain GF actions aren't acceptable or fair and that some
Adults make poor decision. Whether he likes it or not, he can't idolise GF when GF is that unfair.

I would also want to remove the “power” from the grandfather. So personally I’d make it clear whatever he was paying for will not be accepted again in the future.

It sounds like the child was rude, not corrected by the parent & the grandfather, offended at “rude jokes” has acted accordingly.

If your kid is rude best to focus on this, rather than making the grandfather out to be wrong. Because that just teaches the lesson to the child that their “cheekiness” (ie rude behaviour) is acceptable, when clearly it’s not, at least not to grandfather.

Thinking about it and reading replies I do wonder if by cancelling whatever it was the grandfather was really trying to punish the rude child's parents for not stepping in and stopping the child being rude.

@SnuggyBuggy I agree

It seems impossible for parents in today’s culture to label a child’s behaviour as “poor” or “rude”.

The current culture is to use only affectionate terms - in this case OP describes the child ad “impulsively funny & cheeky”

Are we really no longer allowed to call this what it is? The child has a tendency to speak out of turn or be rude. That’s what I read between the lines whenever I see yet another child described as “spirited”.

If the grandad has cancelled it seems he has taken offence & is taking a stand.

Why should a parent or grandparent stand for a child being rude to them?

I hazard a guess if the child was corrected or admonished by the parent the grandparent wouldn’t feel the need to step in & take it up a notch.

It sounds like they are sick of their grandkid being rude and making a point.

Your friend needs to consider whether this gift with strings is worth it. I would personally decline it from now on. A has a right to be pissed off but is clearly sucking it up as he sees his mum sucking up this bad behaviour from her Dad. By going along with his head if the family shit she has trained A to accept it too and I'd be concerned that he'd accept this this from future friends and partners too as it becomes a learned habit.

It's hard to say if gf is over reacting or not because we don't know what was said and how sore a topic it is but what parents call cheeky is often considered "mean" by other parents and kids.I know that there's a lot of online humour where roasting people is considered funny (eg YouTube) but the target has agreed for everybody else to take the piss out of losing the game or whatever they are doing for the clicks and revenue so it's not the same as taking the piss in real life.

I hazard a guess if the child was corrected or admonished by the parent the grandparent wouldn’t feel the need to step in & take it up a notch

I have only skimmed but most people agree the child was wrong in the first instance, most of us think its mighty unfair on child A though who did nothing wrong. GPs can do whatever they want with their own money including stopping a treat, but to punish both children for only ones transgressions is mean and hurtful. And if they are punishing the parents by punishing two children its a five year olds tactic. What are the GPs expecting A to do ? Punish his sibling? Not As job and would likely lead to a frosty relationship in future if any.

They sound like horrible grandparents.

@Gurufloof but then the grandparents could well be accused of “playing favourites”

Is a grandparent supposed to just sit there & cop it sweet when grandchild is being rude to them?