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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Punishing the wrong person aibu

534 replies

Createsuser · 13/02/2021 07:09

So this is for a friend but it’s lockdown and there’s not much else to do.

DF has two DC’s A- sensible, mature and B- impulsive funny and cheeky. She comes from quite a traditional family who are fairly strict. During a recent family Zoom call with the grandparents B made some off colour jokes then when the grandfather gave her a firm telling off hung up on him. The grandfather has now issued some punishments (don’t want to say what as it would be outing) to A and B. A wasn’t involved and told B off for being a fool and said she should have known the grandparents would be upset. So in essence A is now being punished for B’s behaviour which he didn’t agree with. The grandparents won’t listen to A’s side of the story. WWYD and Aibu to think this is unfair?

OP posts:
BeautifulStar · 13/02/2021 16:35

I mean, Who on earth sees themselves as “head of the family” except an absolute twat?

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 13/02/2021 16:37

'Head of the family'.... Is Grandfather in the Maffia OP?

lottiegarbanzo · 13/02/2021 16:42

Yes, the head of the family thing is really odd. (How does the status of his GCs' other GPs fit into that? Their parents?). Which family is he 'head of' exactly?

I'd expect the parents to parent, GPs to be kind to GCs, parents to act as a buffer between the two if needed.

I cannot imagine my, or my DCs' GPs behaving so vindictively. It just doesn't fit within my concept of a GP/GC relationship.

Bythemillpond · 13/02/2021 16:43

Head of the family sounds like he has raised incompetent children who can’t do anything for themselves so he has to supervise them and their offspring as the parents are incapable.

lottiegarbanzo · 13/02/2021 16:45

But what about his offspring's spouses? Their parents?

ChaToilLeam · 13/02/2021 16:46

On the basis of what we know here, GF sounds a bit of an arse. He’s the adult and presumably knows kids can sometimes be unintentionally rude when they think they’re being funny. By all means pull them up on it but this is OTT, especially punishing both kids.

SabrinaMorningstar · 13/02/2021 16:48

Did B hang up her entire family from the call? Or cut off the grandparents? Or only cut off themselves ie B was on a separate screen and disconnected? Either way, it's incredibly rude.

It seem that B's behaviour has been a problem for a while but their parents and you condone it as a 'cheeky' personality.

The grandparents may have removed the treat, not just to punish the DCs but ultimately to show your friend that she can't rely upon the grandparents' funding as long as she condones her DCs' bad behaviour. It might be an attempt to encourage your friend to step up her parenting.

If a 13-yr-old is sanguine about the punishment, I'd assume that the 11-yr-old has been causing problems for a while and even the 13-yr-old is glad that someone is finally calling it out rather than indulging it.

AStudyinPink · 13/02/2021 16:51

It doesn't matter what she said. She apologised and is contrite. He would do better to explain to her why it was so hurtful to help ensure that it doesn't happen again.

It does matter. We don’t know whether it’s understandable that he doesn’t accept her apology immediately. We don’t know what she said or how he apologised.

I agree A is being unfairly treated.

SecretSpAD · 13/02/2021 16:58

@SignsofSpring

I know he's over-reacting because in my family no grandpas or indeed any grandparents shout at my children! At all. We parent, they grandparent. They just don't shout at my girls and that's how we all get along (plus they tend to try to see the best in them which I appreciate a lot, especially when they were little and would be badly behaved or have a tantrum). Shouty grandparents= not close, it's that simple. He wasn't in a parental role, no need to shout.
If I didn't have the authority to discipline any child who was in my care, or tell any child off for being rude to me - I bloody well wouldn't bother with said child and point out to their parents why.
HikeForward · 13/02/2021 17:02

The grandad sounds very immature and appears to have escalated the drama by being spiteful and withholding something

Why should he give gifts of money or treat the children at his expense of one is repeatedly rude to him?

It sounds from the OP that the 11 year old is allowed to get away with saying silly hurtful things a lot, and this was the last straw. If she genuinely can’t tell when she’s being rude, her parents or brother need to tell her after the first offensive joke, not let her carry on.

If a child of 11 in my family repeatedly made ‘jokes’ about my appearance (or something very personal) then hung up without apologising when I told her off, I’d think she was being rude and nasty and not feel like treating her to anything.

Maybe she called him fat or referred to his weight as a ‘joke’ of course he’s going to feel hurt. She’s 11 not 5!

SabrinaMorningstar · 13/02/2021 17:05

'She's 11 not 5!'
yy it's quite unusual for parents and family friends to be excusing an 11-yr-olds' bad behaviour as cheeky and funny.

HikeForward · 13/02/2021 17:05

Because he is punishing A as well as B

Presumably it’s a treat they share, so he can’t give it to one not the other? Maybe he’d agreed to buy them an expensive piece of tech to share, or pay for ultra fast broadband or something?

Gilly12345 · 13/02/2021 17:07

How old are these children?

There are jokes and jokes, if it was personal then I am not surprised offence was taken.

It is the grandparents money and if they wish to stop paying for something then that is their prerogative and perhaps the child may learn some respect.

TriflePudding · 13/02/2021 17:30

I think we are better off raising our children to understand that you shouldn’t be rude to people you love because it’s unkind and will hurt their feelings, not that we shouldn’t be rude because it might result in the loss of a treat- what sort of shit lesson is that ? Do as I say and I will shower you gifts and treats?

And this could have been handled a lot better by granddad not losing his rag and shouting but by saying DD that’s quite unkind, it’s hurt my feelings ....

Which more than likely would have led to a natural apology and a far better lesson learned all round.

SpringtimeBluebells · 13/02/2021 17:33

Withdrawal of money or items or private education or holiday or .... the list is ongoing

It's his money and up to him...perhaps he thought both A and B were in on it.... explain to him?

ddl1 · 13/02/2021 17:36

The grandparents may have removed the treat, not just to punish the DCs but ultimately to show your friend that she can't rely upon the grandparents' funding as long as she condones her DCs' bad behaviour. It might be an attempt to encourage your friend to step up her parenting.

And if that is indeed the case, then the grandparent is PURE EVIL, and the parents should try to make themselves independent of his funding, even if it means fewer treats, etc., rather than continue to allow him to use his money to blackmail them into bringing up their children in the way that HE chooses.

Obviously, there could be exceptional cases where the children are being permitted to break the criminal law, or act in ways that seriously harm other people, or where they have stolen from him, etc. But he should NOT be using his money to force his children/ILs to teach their children better manners (even if I agreed with his views on a particular situation). In fact, one of the most worrying things about the situation is not just that he punished both children for the misbehaviour of one of them, but that he is possibly trying to force A to control B's behaviour. If he is trying to force his adult children to bring up their own children in the way he chooses, that is even worse.

I cannot fully judge the situation with B's behaviour without knowing more (i.e. was B just tactless and unaware, or was she deliberately teasing her grandfather on a sensitive area?) But even in the latter case, it wouldn't justify him in being authoritarian toward the whole family.

TatianaBis · 13/02/2021 17:45

@BeautifulStar

I mean, Who on earth sees themselves as “head of the family” except an absolute twat?
IKR. It's 2021.
TatianaBis · 13/02/2021 17:48

@TriflePudding

If you read the thread:

It would be completely outing! As close as I can get, B starts singing sea shanties because they are popular on Reddit when Grandfather sunk his yacht last year and is cut up about it. B meant no harm and has of course apologised but Grandfather won’t forgive her.

That's not being rude or unkind, she just misjudged a joke and obviously meant no harm. And she did apologise.

roarfeckingroarr · 13/02/2021 17:51

@Createsuser

From what I understand the parents have had a word and explained that A wasn’t involved and that they had no idea B was going to behave that way. The grandfather is humiliated basically. He takes his role as head of the family seriously.
He sounds like a wanker OP
CharlieParley · 13/02/2021 17:52

So, all we know is B (aged 11) said something to her GF that was rude. And that although she had only meant to be cheeky, she was in fact rude.

We do not know if it was rude noises, a rude word, a phrase, a sentence or a whole joke, so the fact that she repeated the rude thing three times tells us nothing about the length of time it went on for, so it's impossible to know whether B should have been able to notice the stunned silence or not.

What we also know is that GF got angry, B apologised immediately, GF shouted at her, B either removed herself from the shared call, or ended the call for all.

Since then GF has punished both B and her older brother by refusing to accept B's apology (a perceived loss of affection) and withholding an ongoing gift from both children (a real loss of a privilege of something her parents cannot afford to replace.)

DS2 was a "cheeky bugger" like that, at about the same age. We worked hard on teaching DS that we cannot say everything we think without giving consideration to our listeners and that something that may be funny to us could be cruel or rude to someone else. We also worked on impulse control. And that the only thing that is in our power when we have upset someone is the apology we make, but not whether the other person accepts it.

But we also parent with a focus on what is age appropriate behaviour and age appropriate discipline (which does not equal punishment). And that means understanding that 11 year olds are not evil little shits who deserve to be permanently punished for unknowingly being rude.

B has apologised, she has shown contrition. Although GF has imposed a harsh punishment on her already, I would have disciplined B myself for being hurtful in this way (that might be a punishment/a loss of privilege or a sustained effort at working on this type of behaviour or both).

You don't say Createsuser if your DF has taken any other steps than to make B apologise.

This is important as otherwise B will not learn what she needs to learn from this. And because it is the job of B's parents to teach appropriate behaviour. An apology alone is unlikely to resolve the issue.

As for GF. He has IMHO every right to withhold his gift. It doesn't matter that I think this reaction is neither proportionate to the offence nor does it reflect a mature consideration of what is an appropriate reaction given the child's age. (The punishment does not seem to me to take the fact that this is a child into account at all.) He still has every right to do this. Even if all he is now doing is taking revenge on someone who hurt (or humiliated) him.

But if I was the OP's DF, I would now reconsider accepting ongoing presents from the GF. He overstepped the mark in shouting at B. (No member of our wider family shouts at my kids without consequence. At the very least, I would have cut the call myself had my DF started shouting at my child.)

FAOD, I view the child removing herself from GF shouting at her as an appropriate reaction and good self-care.

As for A, I would neither replace the loss of privilege for this child nor would I accept his reasoning. That's because an ongoing punishment is not appropriate for B and giving something to A but not B to make up for GF unfairly publishing both only exacerbates the problem. This would need to be explained to and explored with A to help him understand the issues in play here.

We see every mistake we make, every failure as a learning opportunity. I know from our experience that the punishment must fit the crime, otherwise children will not learn what they need to grow into resilient, self-reliable and strong adults who make good choices for themselves.

OakSnows · 13/02/2021 18:05

Grandfather is a dick who thinks everyone has to do what he says, we had a family member like that who’s kids are now LC with them.
He’s holding money over them.
B was right to end the call if being shouted at even if a child.

Thedarknightsarelifting · 13/02/2021 18:06

If I was your DF I wound not accept anything from her farther moving forward.

TriflePudding · 13/02/2021 18:24

@TatianaBis

I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying - which is a. the grandparents didn’t react well to the situation, and b. We shouldn’t blackmail children into being nice to people with gifts and treats.

Not sure why you took issue with my post to be honest!

TatianaBis · 13/02/2021 18:32

@TriflePudding

Sorry I quote the wrong username. My post was to @SabrinaMorningstar

ConkerBonkers · 13/02/2021 18:39

I think practising person is bang on. The gf is willing to give with one hand and take with the other, and he is contrary and petulant. That is who he is. He is not going to change. Hopefully the kids have both twigged this now.