AIBU to think Gina Carano shouldn’t have been fired?

[NinaMimi]

Apologies if this has been asked before as the story was out yesterday. I did search and couldn’t find it.

I think the actor said some really stupid things and I don’t agree with her politics but I haven’t seen anything that crossed the line. The worse thing seems to have been comparing hating someone for their political beliefs to the persecution of the Jews in Germany- which is monumentally dumb, but that just reads to me like they’re not an intelligent person rather than anti-jewish.

Opinions?

I’m also a big fan of Clint Eastwood who comes across as a right wing nut but I don’t think anyone is going to cancel him. I wonder if there’s a level of fame you need to say dumb things.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-56022084

@PinkyParrot

I can't think of anything as bad as the holocaust - possibly the slave trade, but I can't think of anything else that can compare with the unjustified cruelty. You can't compare it to anything let alone being a conservative. She deserves to go.

But she wasn’t making a comparison to the Holocaust itself afaik- she was seeing parallels in events that enable the Holocaust to happen.

It is similar to what happened in Rwanda - neighbour were turned against neighbour and many of the killers had lived alongside their victims in the same communities. The victims were dehumanised to enable the mass slaughter.

We are not so modern and sophisticated that it can’t happen again. The death and rape threats unleashed on women who speak out against gender ideology is getting a bit too close to the past for my liking. And we know that rape goes almost unprosecuted while the authorities are dismantling our safeguarding and violence against women is rising fast.

Maybe it is already here??

She wasn't actually fired was she? Her existing contracts had already finished and Disney decided not to go ahead with a new production they were considering.

If people are more worried about the hypothetical dehumanisation and persecution of Republicans, than they are about the actual dehumanisation and violence currently perpetrated by the extreme right, then that tells you everything you need to know about them.

The FBI has said right-wing extremists are the number one terrorist threat in the US. Hate crimes are at historic levels. And that's not even getting into Trump policies like the Muslim travel ban, or his belief that you can grab women by the pussy, which are excellent examples of dehumanisation.

If people are more worried about the hypothetical dehumanisation and persecution of Republicans, than they are about the actual dehumanisation and violence currently perpetrated by the extreme right, then that tells you everything you need to know about them

AFAIK the only violence has been perpetrated on right-leaning politicians. Rep Steve Scalise was shot by a left-wing radical in 2017. It’s not hypothetical

@HelloToMyKitty

If people are more worried about the hypothetical dehumanisation and persecution of Republicans, than they are about the actual dehumanisation and violence currently perpetrated by the extreme right, then that tells you everything you need to know about them

AFAIK the only violence has been perpetrated on right-leaning politicians. Rep Steve Scalise was shot by a left-wing radical in 2017. It’s not hypothetical

Are you joking?

US Hate Crime Highest in More Than a Decade -- FBI
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54968498

The FBI's annual Hate Crime Statistics Act (HCSA) report says there were 7,314 hate crimes last year, up from 7,120 the year before - and the highest number since 7,783 were recorded in 2008.

A hate crime is defined in the report as offences "motivated by bias toward race, ethnicity, ancestry, religion, sexual orientation, disability, gender, and gender identity".

-> Note that in the US you cannot prosecute someone for hateful speech alone so these are actual offences (murder, assault, theft) motivated by bigotry, not just people saying racist shit on Twitter or something

@HelloToMyKitty

If people are more worried about the hypothetical dehumanisation and persecution of Republicans, than they are about the actual dehumanisation and violence currently perpetrated by the extreme right, then that tells you everything you need to know about them

AFAIK the only violence has been perpetrated on right-leaning politicians. Rep Steve Scalise was shot by a left-wing radical in 2017. It’s not hypothetical

As far as you know?

Bless your heart. As they say in the Southern States.

Lots of name-calling but you haven’t actually shown me anything at all.

A right-wing senator was literally shot by a left-wing activist and you want to talk about hypotheticals?

a) What names have you been called?

b) Who stormed the Capitol in January 2021?

c) Who was arrested for plotting to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer in October 2020?

d) Who shot Gaby Giffords in 2011?

Er... I just showed you an FBI hate crimes report.

I could show you a bunch of other reports about how 90% of domestic terrorism in the US comes from far-right extremists.

As I said, if people don't want to see this reality, that tells you everything you need to know about them.

b) Who stormed the Capitol in January 2021?

Who stormed the Capitol in September 2018?

c) Who was arrested for plotting to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer in October 2020?

Militia from all over the political spectrum. One was demonstrably at a BLM protest.

d) Who shot Gaby Giffords in 2011?

This was over ten years ago. Outside the purview of the Trump era. Or should I bring up the Reagan assassination attempt here?

@rosetylersbiggun

It's a dangerous path to go down - you never know when your own opinion will be deemed 'wrong'.

So what do you want, a culture where racists and Neo-Nazis and Covid-deniers and anti-maskers are encouraged to flourish, and if anyone doesn't feel comfortable working with or employing them (for example a Jewish shop owner interviewing a proud member of a Neo-Nazi organisation with swastika tattoos) THEY are the ones who get cancelled?

No. Actions have consequences.

Who gets to make the decision? The person who has the power over the decision in question. Decision whether to hire this person or that person? Rests entirely with the employer. Decision whether to watch a certain TV show or boycott it? Rests entirely with the individual viewer. As it should be. Don't like it? Do what the zillions of wealthy and influential right wingers have done, and start your own company, then you can do what Gina's new boss has done and give someone a voice purely and solely due to being right wing (or what the people who decided to plaster Lawrence Fox all over the news for nothing more than "being racist" - a level of media coverage he certainly has not earned as a result of his mediocre acting CV. Or what the people who've made dozens of other right wingers famous simply for being willing to say racist and other outrageous things on camera have done).

I bet any money if an actor lost their job after tweeting misogynistic hate speech against women, absolutely no one on this forum would be wailing about "cancel culture" and how all people should be allowed to say exactly what they like, no matter how bigoted or damaging, and no one is allowed to not work with them or not watch their shows.

We've just come through four years of an extreme right wing government led by Trump who weaponised the concept of the right wing purity spiral and used every tactic and weapon in the book to punish and censor liberal voices and promote violent white supremacy and anti-democracy. The idea that right wingers are helpless oppressed victims is pure Trumpian propaganda.

Racists have long waged war on this forum by trying to align themselves with GC feminists. Being GC is nothing like being a racist and I reject the whole "but GC feminists are oppressed to, so we should like racists!" argument as sheer bigoted agenda-pushing aimed either at trying to co-opt women to the cause of white supremacy, or more likely to denigrate us GC women by painting us as racists.

Freedom of thought and expression aren't really concepts for you are they !

@DdraigGoch

She wasn't actually fired was she? Her existing contracts had already finished and Disney decided not to go ahead with a new production they were considering.

She’s in the Mandalorian and was not exactly written out. Now it seems she’s not going to be back so the role will either be dropped or recast. It could have happened if negotiations didn’t go well, it’s still a loss for the show

@HelloToMyKitty

b) Who stormed the Capitol in January 2021?

Who stormed the Capitol in September 2018?

c) Who was arrested for plotting to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer in October 2020?

Militia from all over the political spectrum. One was demonstrably at a BLM protest.

d) Who shot Gaby Giffords in 2011?

This was over ten years ago. Outside the purview of the Trump era. Or should I bring up the Reagan assassination attempt here?

Okay, 2011 is too long ago for you to wrap your head around, even though Trumpism was borne out of the Tea Party movement. I'm surprised you don't know that.

So who did storm the Capitol in January 2021? I notice you didn't answer. It was last month. You surely remember that?

And did the people protesting Kavanuagh's confirmation at the Capitol in 2018 kill any police officers? Did anyone else die when they were there? How many were arrested, compared to say, January 2021?

And you might want to look into the backgrounds of those in the so called Wolverine Watchmen. I suspect you're fully aware they don't represent the 'political spectrum'. But pesky facts don't seem to interest you that much.

Also, what names have you been called?

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

I don't believe that people should be sacked for expressing their opinion on their own social media. Free speech should mean just that, so long as you aren't causing actual physical harm to other people, thus inhibiting their rights. People are not owned by their employer, although you'd never know it from the amount of cancel culture that exists.

Free speech should mean just that....

You, like so many other people, really should take the time to educate yourself on what the right to free speech actually is. Despite what you evidently think, there is no absolute right to freedom of speech or expression, nor should there be.

Here's something else to think about once you've done that. If I were a guest in your house and I was being highly offensive, perhaps insulting you and your family, using outrageous obscenities, making unfounded, hurtful accusations against you etc etc etc would you tell me to shut up/leave or would you say "ho hum, freedom of speech I guess" and let me continue? Assuming you concede there is only one truthful answer to that, why then would you think social or traditional media platforms should have to give an absolute freedom of expression to their users? Why should employers have to tolerate an employee, who can be readily associated with them, spouting off whatever offensive shit they feel like without any consequences?

It was a dumb comment for sure, but it's rather hard to read it as anti semitic. And it's an amazing double standard , yes. She probably said or did something else that went bad commercially, and this was what they can get her for.

Her co Star has made Nazi comparisons in the past. But about republications so didn't get fired.

Nazi republication comparisons have been pretty commonplace in the past 5 years. No one's been cancelled for it.

And yes there are a very very few actual Nazis on the right. As there are a very very few authoritarian Marxists on the left.

But comparisons of mainstream republications with Nazis have been tolerated.

People can see the double standard and it makes them angry.

Meanwhile Disney pander to the Chinese who actually do have sterilisation camps actually like the Holocaust.

TooTrue - it's a silly comparison between what people might choose to have in their personal home (which will vary hugely across people) and what we must collectively agree can be expressed in public spaces even though our opinions will disagree.
Surely you can see those 2 things have to be vastly different standards.

The point about employers and offensive views is that it's now deemed offensive to hold and express some mainstream conservative views.

And when half the country may feel their views cannot be expressed, it's a serious problem.

And did the people protesting Kavanuagh's confirmation at the Capitol in 2018 kill any police officers?

Brian Sicknick was not killed by protestors. Please read the updated facts on the case. I believe even CNN is reporting that now.

Did anyone else die when they were there? How many were arrested, compared to say, January 2021?

Yes, the Capitol rioters should have been arrested, not shot like that young woman. I watched the Kavanaugh hearings. Protesters burst into the chambers, screeching their heads off. They didn’t get shot. Why?

And you might want to look into the backgrounds of those in the so called Wolverine Watchmen. I suspect you're fully aware they don't represent the 'political spectrum'. But pesky facts don't seem to interest you that much

I told you that one demonstrably took part in a BLM protest. Another was vocally anti-Trump. These are the facts.

What ties these people together is being anti-government. Which is a characteristic of both the extreme right and left. Horseshoe theory in action.

Sorry did I miss something? Did Gina Carano storm the capital?
Disney should definitely fire her if she did.

But they and others shouldn't do a warped and dangerous logic of:
Some people on the right stormed the capital.
They are criminals.
Gina is on the right.
So she's like a criminal/ can't be tolerated.

It proves her point: right leaning views are now not tolerated in many public spaces or professions.

This worries sensible people on the left too. Because they can see how fricking dangerous it is to polarise people like this.

@BabyItsAWildWorld

Sorry did I miss something? Did Gina Carano storm the capital? Disney should definitely fire her if she did.

But they and others shouldn't do a warped and dangerous logic of:
Some people on the right stormed the capital.
They are criminals.
Gina is on the right.
So she's like a criminal/ can't be tolerated.

It proves her point: right leaning views are now not tolerated in many public spaces or professions.

This worries sensible people on the left too. Because they can see how fricking dangerous it is to polarise people like this.

Exactly. The fact she was sacked for saying what she said, proves her point rather nicely.

Her actual post said this:

“Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors.... even by children.

“Because history is edited, most people today don´t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews.

“How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?”

Am I being horrendously ignorant not to see the anti-semitism in this? Yes it's a crass comparison and I don't agree with all her opinions by any means, but she's a former MMA fighter, not exactly an LA luvvie type so it's not surprising to me that her views align more to the conservative, middle America side of the spectrum.

It's no wonder we're so divided if we jump to demonise people like this (in the UK too with Brexit etc). Isn't there a middle ground where we can disagree and debate things without calling people abhorrent etc? I don't mean actual racist, abhorrent views but this type of thing where someone is maybe lacking in sensitivity.

I thought Gina Carano was good in the Mandalorian and she plays quite a character who is a bit rough round the edges well, maybe because she actually is like that in real life? I'd rather someone be straightforward (and wrong about some stuff) than everyone being frightened to make anything but the blandest of approved statements in public, regardless of whether they actually believe them or not.

Also, Disney is actually kinda racist for erasing a black man from a movie poster because they thought Chinese people were racist ...

People still wanging on with that disingenuous 'oh but the Nazis were far left' idiocy. Read a book, fool.

Exactly. Mumsnet is hardcore right wing, there's a shitton of bigotry on here, and there's definitely a white supremacist contingent on this forum.

It's just far right wingers trying to disguise their butthurt by pretending to care about "freedom of speech" like someone not being hired for a huge acting role means they're being somehow punished or cancelled!

Exactly. Mumsnet is hardcore right wing, there's a shitton of bigotry on here, and there's definitely a white supremacist contingent on this forum

😂😂😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂🥲

Wow, do u really believe this?

It's just far right wingers trying to disguise their butthurt by pretending to care about "freedom of speech" like someone not being hired for a huge acting role means they're being somehow punished or cancelled!

So why isn’t Pedro Pascal being punished for his tweet comparison to the Holocaust? Since that’s the stated reason they’re dumping her.

To be honest, it’s sad that Gina isn’t going to reprise her role on the Mandalorian. The character is going to be recast or just dropped, either way it’s going to change the character of the show.

I liked having a tough female character that actually looks like she could kick ass. She was great in the role, why should we care that she has conservative views?

People still wanging on with that disingenuous 'oh but the Nazis were far left' idiocy. Read a book, fool.

Either the PP has fallen for 80 year old Nazi propaganda or believes in Nazi ideology and has an agenda to push, which doesnt suprise me with the amount of right wing idiocy on here I see the GC feminists agree with