AIBU to think Gina Carano shouldn’t have been fired?

[NinaMimi]

Apologies if this has been asked before as the story was out yesterday. I did search and couldn’t find it.

I think the actor said some really stupid things and I don’t agree with her politics but I haven’t seen anything that crossed the line. The worse thing seems to have been comparing hating someone for their political beliefs to the persecution of the Jews in Germany- which is monumentally dumb, but that just reads to me like they’re not an intelligent person rather than anti-jewish.

Opinions?

I’m also a big fan of Clint Eastwood who comes across as a right wing nut but I don’t think anyone is going to cancel him. I wonder if there’s a level of fame you need to say dumb things.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-56022084

It's a dangerous path to go down - you never know when your own opinion will be deemed 'wrong'.

So what do you want, a culture where racists and Neo-Nazis and Covid-deniers and anti-maskers are encouraged to flourish, and if anyone doesn't feel comfortable working with or employing them (for example a Jewish shop owner interviewing a proud member of a Neo-Nazi organisation with swastika tattoos) THEY are the ones who get cancelled?

No. Actions have consequences.

Who gets to make the decision? The person who has the power over the decision in question. Decision whether to hire this person or that person? Rests entirely with the employer. Decision whether to watch a certain TV show or boycott it? Rests entirely with the individual viewer. As it should be. Don't like it? Do what the zillions of wealthy and influential right wingers have done, and start your own company, then you can do what Gina's new boss has done and give someone a voice purely and solely due to being right wing (or what the people who decided to plaster Lawrence Fox all over the news for nothing more than "being racist" - a level of media coverage he certainly has not earned as a result of his mediocre acting CV. Or what the people who've made dozens of other right wingers famous simply for being willing to say racist and other outrageous things on camera have done).

I bet any money if an actor lost their job after tweeting misogynistic hate speech against women, absolutely no one on this forum would be wailing about "cancel culture" and how all people should be allowed to say exactly what they like, no matter how bigoted or damaging, and no one is allowed to not work with them or not watch their shows.

We've just come through four years of an extreme right wing government led by Trump who weaponised the concept of the right wing purity spiral and used every tactic and weapon in the book to punish and censor liberal voices and promote violent white supremacy and anti-democracy. The idea that right wingers are helpless oppressed victims is pure Trumpian propaganda.

Racists have long waged war on this forum by trying to align themselves with GC feminists. Being GC is nothing like being a racist and I reject the whole "but GC feminists are oppressed to, so we should like racists!" argument as sheer bigoted agenda-pushing aimed either at trying to co-opt women to the cause of white supremacy, or more likely to denigrate us GC women by painting us as racists.

@rosetylersbiggun

Oh what do you know. Less than 48 hours after Star Wars announced they weren't going to give her a new job, Gina has announced that she's been given a movie deal to produce and star in a new film, financed and supported by a powerful conservative/right wing media tycoon.

Tell me more about how she's been "cancelled" by "the mob", had "absolutely everything taken away from her" and has no hope of ever working again ever with "no way back, no chance to redeem herself"?

I’d hardly call Ben Shapiro a “tycoon” or a segment for his chat show starring in “a film”. Honestly it’s like the people pretending Brittany Spears career wasn’t over when she moved to Las Vegas.

I can't think of anything as bad as the holocaust - possibly the slave trade, but I can't think of anything else that can compare with the unjustified cruelty. You can't compare it to anything let alone being a conservative. She deserves to go.

PP concerned about her survival are ridiculous. She comes from a rich family. That’s probably why she wasn’t bothered about breaking the reputation clause in her Disney contract and not being renewed.

She's obviously a bit thick and a liability for therm. Don't know what the back story is either - maybe they have given her chances to rein it in and she hasn't. It does sound like there was a bit of a history there.

This from a company that literally erased a black man from a movie poster to pander to Chinese audiences.

They can fuck right off

We've just come through four years of an extreme right wing government led by Trump who weaponised the concept of the right wing purity spiral and used every tactic and weapon in the book to punish and censor liberal voices and promote violent white supremacy and anti-democracy. The idea that right wingers are helpless oppressed victims is pure Trumpian propaganda

Wow, severe case of projection there. The left-wing are caught in a purity-spiral ouroboros, not the right!

Without Baby Yoda the future of The Mandalorian was shaky anyway. This was the last thing it needed.

Disney wants a squeaky clean image, everyone knows that. You go against that with what you post on sm, they are going to act.

@KatherineJaneway

Without Baby Yoda the future of The Mandalorian was shaky anyway. This was the last thing it needed.

Disney wants a squeaky clean image, everyone knows that. You go against that with what you post on sm, they are going to act.

This is very true. Grogu was 99% of the appeal. Didn’t Disney force the Jonas Brothers to wear purity (virginity) rings back in the 90s? They do have this wholesome branded image they like to project.

@gardenbird48

Gina’s post read: “Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children.

“Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews.

I think she makes a very valid point - can anyone see any parallels with the current cancel culture, old people getting abused while they sit in a cafe because the mob decided they should have been kneeling for BLM, or thousands of women receiving rape and death threats on social media because they express a view, or a real life female politician receiving a vicious and credible rape because she campaigns for women’s rights. The point that Gina makes isn’t that the SNP member who threatened Joanna Cherry with ‘corrective rape’ is like the Nazis it is that Nicola Sturgeon and all the SNP leadership who have not said a word against this are like the Nazi sympathisers, the ordinary neighbours who turned against a group of people purely because of who they were.

The Holocaust was the culmination of years of quiet work slowly dehumanising and positioning a group of people as the enemy in order to achieve their destruction. The neighbours and other ordinary citizens were instrumental in that process.

We are now in the situation as you can see from many threads in here, there is a group of people who are slowly being dehumanised, having their words to describe themselves being taken away and being threatened with sacking, ostracising and violence is they dissent.

I’d say Gina is very much on the money.

Watch the movie JoJo Rabbit and you’ll get the jist.

But the far right people she is on side with were the people doing all that, and Trump and far right Republicans are the fucking racist fascist arseholes.

@Graciebobcat
Er, no the Nazis were far left fascists. Not far right. Facism can occur on either the far left or the far right.

Nazi is an abbreviation of Nationalist Socialist part of the full party name which was Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party.

Yes, that's what right whingers always say. Have a

I don’t feel sorry for her personally and there are a lot more cases to be sorry for. For example, I remember reading about a regular working class guy who was videoed doing the ok sign and he lost his job even though he didn’t know it was a newly adopted white power symbol (like I’m sure lots of people still don’t know). People like that will suffer more than rich people with platforms.

Also I agree there’s hypocrisy on the right where they go on about being proponents of free speech etc but then go silent on “cancel culture” if it’s someone outside their political beliefs or agenda who’s affected.

I also agree again that she made a stupid comparison (and that Holocaust/WW2 comparisons are made too causally). Also people should know by now that in Twitter there is no nuance. So if you’re trying to say that genocides or authoritarian regimes can start with repression of political views and neighbours turning on each other, and dehumanising each other, it’s going to be read with the worst slant. Though to be clear at face value it’s still a stupid comparison for lots of reasons such as right wingers aren’t a minority or repressed etc.

Someone brought up using Stasi comparisons as a better example. I think the problem is a lot of people aren’t knowledgeable on a lot of history and WW2 is the one war people know most about so if they reach for examples or comparisons they go for that period.

That being said I still don’t think she should have been dropped. (I take the technical point that she wasn’t fired but she would have appeared in the next series if not for the tweets). There have been lots of comparisons to nazis and concentration camps for Trump’s presidency by the left. I think if she’d said something about Trump being literally Hitler or compared a group in the USA to Jews in Germany she would still be appearing in the next series.

But the far right people she is on side with were the people doing all that, and Trump and far right Republicans are the fucking racist fascist arseholes

Please explain how Republicans are the racist, fascist arseholes when it is Gina getting fired for her political opinions.

I also agree again that she made a stupid comparison (and that Holocaust/WW2 comparisons are made too causally)

She never mentioned the Holocaust. She was making a point that it was ordinary people ostracizing Jews, that it was not a top down persecution.

Her costar also made comparisons of the ‘kids in cages’ to the Holocaust on Twitter and I don’t see him fired ...

the Nazis were far left facists

No they weren't. The roots of the Nazi party were in socialism but they moved to the far right just as soon as they began accumulating power.

rose in all honesty I don't really care what her (or anyone else's) opinions are. I do care about peoples right to express that opinion on their own social media without the consequences being so severe that their freedom to do so is lost. For me, losing their job is too severe.
I take a view that I would rather know what a person is thinking, rather than have it hidden. There was a clergyman recently who made some comments about people's admiration for Captain Tom. He hasn't lost his job, although his comments arguably damaged his employer at a time when they could really do with not losing any more supporters. Nor should he lose his job imo. People like Captain Tom did what they did so that people like that clergyman could have the freedom to say what they want. I don't care of some actor is a misogynistic arsehole - I will just dismiss him as such. The price of true freedom is sometimes having to hear things which we might personally find offensive and would prefer not to hear. The right to that freedom should only cease when it infringes upon someone else's freedom to go about their own business. Which I think would cover your point about an employer having to give a job to someone who is personally hateful towards them. Of course no one would reasonable expect that. I don't believe Disney could argue this was the case.
The only power the employer should hold is to be able to insist that personal views are not discussed at work on on work SM.
The law is responsible for ensuring people don't cause physical harm to other people or threaten harm. This is where Twitter is problematic because it has removed some posts while allowing others to stand. The law needs to be consistently applied irrespective of left/right political leanings

Might be wrong but I thought the Nazis called themselves socialist in order to capture the votes of people who would otherwise have supported their political opponents. It was a strategy. I don't think anyone could describe them as socialist

I can't believe that people still think the Nazi's were far left! There was nothing socialist in their politics, they were far right fascists. You can call a onion an apple, it doesn't make it a fruit!

People still wanging on with that disingenuous 'oh but the Nazis were far left' idiocy.

Read a book, fool.

Who gets to decide which voices are heard? Who gets to keep their job? It's a dangerous path to go down - you never know when your own opinion will be deemed 'wrong'.

You do realise someone always decides which voices are heard. Until recently it was wealthy white men, which is why people were sacked or imprisoned for saying women should vote, or black people shouldn't have to sit in the back of a bus, or trade unions should be allowed, or gay people should be able to get married. Funny how when right wingers look for historical examples they never mention all that.

Now society has evolved, racism isn't tolerated as much as it used to be, it's a more diverse society that is deciding what is acceptable. And basically racists and right wingers can't handle that they can't say whatever garbage they want.

Someone earlier mentioned Karl Popper's intolerance paradox. He argues that if the aim is a tolerant society, then (paradoxically) you cannot be tolerant of intolerant people, because they undermine and destroy that tolerance. THAT is the real lesson of the Nazis. Not that we should accept any views no matter how awful, but that you need to combat racist extremists early on.

In the US, during the Obama years when racist speech soared, there was a real effort to try to rise above it. Look how that worked out, we got Trump, who incited a mob of neo-Nazis to attack the Capitol and keep him in power. It was almost a massacre. It was the most dangerous moment in modern American democracy. So no, people are done with tolerating the extreme right wing and racists, because this is where it leads.

Someone earlier mentioned Karl Popper's intolerance paradox. He argues that if the aim is a tolerant society, then (paradoxically) you cannot be tolerant of intolerant people, because they undermine and destroy that tolerance.

But what did Gina Carano say that was intolerant?

After she refused to state her pronouns her card was marked

Yep, let's make no bones about it. This is absolutely what had happened here. Didn't Gal Gadot state some dubious opinions, but she's still Wonder Woman.

Once the TRA's have got it in for you, you're pretty much done. Unless you're as rich as JKR.

What a shame these people yield so much power.

Thinking that "free speech" = "allowing people to say bigoted things without facing real world consequences" is so fundentally dim. Free speech gives Gina Carano the right to say whatever she likes without being arrested (providing she's not inciting violence and therefore breaking the law, which she's not). It does not mean she cannot be publicly criticised for saying those things, or that her employer cannot terminate her employment, or that a public platform has to continue hosting said opinions.

mol.im/a/9255227

This is where policing people's opinions ends up.