To insist on vaccinated carers

[Oblahdeeoblahdoe]

One of the carers who goes into my elderly mum has refused the vaccine (she told mum) I'm really annoyed and want to request to the management that she doesn't attend to mum anymore. I feel if she wants to do this job she should have the vaccine in order to protect her clients. I know there's no proof yet it will protect against transmission on but most scientists believe it will. AIBU?

Can someone provide a link to the ‘employment law’ being quoted?

I’m wondering how vaccination would be different from other conditions of employment.

I can’t be convicted of a sex offence and continue to work here, for example.

I can also be sacked for unacceptable behaviour on social media. If I were to engage in dishonest scare-mongering about a pharmaceutical product, for example.......

We have a shortage of carers. Force them to have vaccine in this way and we’ll have far fewer (either because they won’t have it or the total disrespect of them will make them leave).

Should a carer with a non-vaccinated CEV child have a right to refuse to visit non-vaccinated clients?
Carers get offered the vaccine to protect the NHS - if enough get sick we can’t discharge people from hospital. And because of a poor uptake amongst their clients. But why should carers take the vaccine to protect people who choose not to have it? There have been posts on here in January where people say “oh no, I’m not having it and I wouldn’t want my DM to have it yet either”.

No one wants to have a system where all of “them” have to be vaccinated but People Like Us can choose.

@AnnabelleMarx.
🤔I can’t decide whether your post is an attempt to be sarcastic......or to just show off to me what an important job you have and how clever you must be to have it...or maybe both?🙄
I was merely responding to your post but hey ho that’s the sort of response you get on these threads

My grandmother is going into a care home on Thursday and my first question was how many staff and residents are vaccinated? I expected maybe a percentage but the care home manager said all residents and all but two staff who will no longer be providing personal care to the oldest residents which includes my grandmother at 94. Not sure how carers can expect the best jobs if they’re not vaccinated.

@AnnabelleMarx

Can someone provide a link to the ‘employment law’ being quoted?

I’m wondering how vaccination would be different from other conditions of employment.

I can’t be convicted of a sex offence and continue to work here, for example.

I can also be sacked for unacceptable behaviour on social media. If I were to engage in dishonest scare-mongering about a pharmaceutical product, for example.......

It comes under the equality act 2010 .... just google ‘ equality act protecting anti vaxxers ‘ and loads comes up..... I’ve had the vaccine by the way.....just that some people are getting a bit arsey on this thread so just confirming my status ( not you of course)

I can’t be convicted of a sex offence and continue to work here, for example.

That is a crime. People declining a medical treatment are acting entirely within the law and their rights.

"Rigorously tested?

As far as I'm aware this vaccine is unliscenced and the trial will be going on for several years. You obviously know something that neither me or Pfizer know because I have scoured their documents intensely looking for long term safety data about trials with people with multiple sclerosis.

I can't find it so please can you send me the information you have? While you're at it, send it to Pfizer too."

We have more than enough data on the covid vaccines, and more than enough long-term data on other mRNA vaccines, for it to be considered safe by people with more knowledge than you or me.

Medical advisers to the MS Society have released a statement saying that they do not believe that the vaccine is in any way dangerous to people with MS. We know exactly what is in the vaccines, we know that they don't contain any live virus, and we know that unlicensed does not mean untested.

AnnaBella patronising comments like that aren't going to change anybody's mind. The data I need to decide is not there. It's that simple.

Perhaps you can provide me with the long term safety data for patients with multiple sclerosis?

Are you able to reassure me that the deaths reported below are a coincidence?

medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?EVENTS=on&PAGENO=14&PERPAGE=10&ESORT=&REVERSESORT=&VAX=(COVID19)&DIED=Yes

@AnnabelleMarx
Of course if you want links to employment Law in the states you would have to ask someone from the USA

Is she's trotting around telling people about her unvaccinated status I would sure as he'll be requesting someone else.

Of course employers don't have a right to know if she has a genuine reason. But I suspect she'd have shared it if she did as she's clearly not afraid of over sharing.

And frankly I think unless you have a valid medical reason for not being able to have a vaccine (or ttc, pregnancy etc) I think it should be ok to request that as a condition of employment.

Maybe look after your mother yourself then

Maybe look after your mother yourself then

What a ridiculous statement! The OP is just looking out for her mum and trying to get the best for her. For lots of people, 'the best' is not having family care for them.

I started a thread in legal matters about this subject

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters/4153043-Covid-vaccination-and-employment?pg=2

Rawlikesushi you're right, it does say that. And here's where it gets tricky.

We do not know how many people in the vaccine clinical trials had MS, so data on the safety and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines in those with MS is not yet available Our guidance is based on data from the general population in the vaccine clinical trials and data from studies of other vaccines administered to people with MS.

So there's no data on safety but they somehow know that it's safe. That's me reassured then.

Good and commited carers who form good relationships with the people they care for are priceless and underpaid and not appreciated. Their personal health preferances are non of your concern. Your mothers care and happiness should be and if she is happy with her care that is most important

@JamieFrasersAuntie

Rawlikesushi you're right, it does say that. And here's where it gets tricky.

We do not know how many people in the vaccine clinical trials had MS, so data on the safety and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines in those with MS is not yet available Our guidance is based on data from the general population in the vaccine clinical trials and data from studies of other vaccines administered to people with MS.

So there's no data on safety but they somehow know that it's safe. That's me reassured then.

Yes, from the massive amounts of data from other mRNA vaccines.

@AnnabelleMarx I’m wondering how vaccination would be different from other conditions of employment
You may want to listen to a video on the link that I posted, made by a barrister.

@harridan50

Good and commited carers who form good relationships with the people they care for are priceless and underpaid and not appreciated. Their personal health preferances are non of your concern. Your mothers care and happiness should be and if she is happy with her care that is most important

Well she might not be happy when she's gasping her last on a ventilator.

@Updatemate

The fact that so many people in the medical field are refusing this vaccine tells you everything.

I work for the NHS. I manage a vaccine hub. I don't know a single doctor who has refused the vaccine. I know some who due to allergies chose the AZ over Pfizer and know 1 who can't have either due to allergies. Those refusing are generally HCPs, non-medical staff etc. They may be considered "in a medical field" but they do not have much if any medical training.

This.

I don’t personally know any qualified HCPs who have refused the vaccine.

@Saz12 We have a shortage of carers. Force them to have vaccine in this way and we’ll have far fewer (either because they won’t have it or the total disrespect of them will make them leave)

That could be true, especially as a sizeable number are BAME too, and as we know uptake is lower.

But equally I suppose, and sadly, there are fewer people in care homes. Cant remember for sure if the figure I read, was 10% lower in number?

The carer should not have to have the vaccine to keep their job. No one should be forced to have a medical procedure against their will.

Also, if you mum has the vaccine, what's the problem?

My worry would be that be doing so you are severely limiting the pool of Carers available to your mum.

I worked in community care for 5 years. There are not enough people doing the job, simple as that. Of course, absolutely refuse to have someone in your home if they are bad at their job or unkind to your mum. Refusing because of their personal medical status may actually leave you with a problem.

If you’re free & able to step in & provide the care when no vaccinated member of staff is available then OK. But if not, think about it very carefully.

If say 50% of the care staff are unvaccinated, you will be reducing an already tightly stretched pool by 50%.

I have had the vaccine but no one knows individuals reasons for not having any vaccine for example the flu. It is hard enough to staff all areas of healthcare as it is

I don't see why employers can't insist on the vaccine? My first job I had to agree to have Hep A and B at work otherwise I didn't have a job. And this was part of the civil service.