To insist on vaccinated carers

[Oblahdeeoblahdoe]

One of the carers who goes into my elderly mum has refused the vaccine (she told mum) I'm really annoyed and want to request to the management that she doesn't attend to mum anymore. I feel if she wants to do this job she should have the vaccine in order to protect her clients. I know there's no proof yet it will protect against transmission on but most scientists believe it will. AIBU?

Many of my DDs friends are carers and are refusing vaccine based on worry around their fertility.....I’m sure that few of them have looked at any of the evidence tho.....only listened to their mates or Social Media.....it is a worry

You could insist, but it is entirely up to the carer whether they tell their employer whether they've had it. It would be discrimination for the employer to refuse to employ people who have not had it/ refuse to disclose.

So whilst you can insist, you are insisting on something which cannot be provided.

@GeorgiaGirl52

Depends on where you are located. DD2 works in a care home for brain-damaged adults. Head office said all workers (even those in office with no direct contact) must have shots. Anyone who refused would be given a reference but their contract would be terminated immediately. In our state, medical workers are a special class and not subject to all those "protections" provided to regular union workers. After the next meeting of the legislature, public/state school teachers will likely be a special class and also required to have vaccinations.

Take it this is not in the UK then

Regardless of what a London law firm thinks nobody can be forced to have an experimental vaccine. Ever. Under any circumstances.

I am hearing more and more about this and I find it very worrying indeed. I think employers who coerce or threaten employees to have this are going to find themselves in court.

@Obbydoo, l totally agree, we need to put pressure on them. The company swaps carers around for their own convenience so they can do it if they want to.

My aunt recently died with covid in a care home. Only 3 other residents, also all had Covid. None of the careers were vaccinated and were only tested every 2 weeks. They should all definitely be vaccinated.

The fact that so many people in the medical field are refusing this vaccine tells you everything.

I work for the NHS. I manage a vaccine hub. I don't know a single doctor who has refused the vaccine. I know some who due to allergies chose the AZ over Pfizer and know 1 who can't have either due to allergies. Those refusing are generally HCPs, non-medical staff etc. They may be considered "in a medical field" but they do not have much if any medical training.

They had a solicitor on talking about this on radio 4 at tea time. Sounded like it depends on the definition of reasonable - in the context of whether an employer would be reasonable to mandate an employee is vaccinated. Possibly, in the case of a carer. But whether you as a client can insist, unsure. It's all untested legally anyway. The solicitor said they'd had many many queries from employers. At least the legal profession won't be short of work after the pandemic....

@JamieFrasersAuntie

Regardless of what a London law firm thinks nobody can be forced to have an experimental vaccine. Ever. Under any circumstances.

I am hearing more and more about this and I find it very worrying indeed. I think employers who coerce or threaten employees to have this are going to find themselves in court.

This^ +++ Even if the employer agrees with what you are saying and in the end an alternative carer is assigned to your Mum.....they could never say it was because she was unvaccinated.....and you are unlikely to know the vaccination status of future carers unless they disclose to you.....which they do not have to......the law is the law.....until it’s not.....but any case law presented around this will take years and years

Of course you can request another carer, whether they’ll supply one is another matter. They probably will atm because they’ll want to keep your business but be careful what you wish for because these carers are not going to back down.
I work in a care home and we still can’t get any staff through the door even though the unemployment rates are soaring.
The care sector is dangerously short staffed and has been for years.

Refusing to have someone in who hasn’t been vaccinated is an infringement of their human rights. Just like refusing to have a gay man in just in case he is HIV. If the carer is using PPE and following all the rules around reducing transmission, plus your DM has had the vaccination, she is probably as safe as she can be.

It’s not a legal requirement therefore she and others do not need to have the vaccine

@JamieFrasersAuntie

Regardless of what a London law firm thinks nobody can be forced to have an experimental vaccine. Ever. Under any circumstances.

I am hearing more and more about this and I find it very worrying indeed. I think employers who coerce or threaten employees to have this are going to find themselves in court.

I think it should be mandatory in certain professions. It can't be right that eight care home residents have covid, caught from carers who refused the vaccine and are presumably bringing it in while asymptomatic. I think carers have had a lot of support from the public over the past year, but could undo all of that now. They are risking lives for, in this case, daft reasons, according to the reasons they themselves have openly shared.

@TrufflyPig

There was the "not knowing" if it will affect future fertility, and many are in twenties without children (myself included).

The "I never get I'll anyway"

The side effects.

The thinking it was developed far too quickly.

Some dont really give reasons.

We have all had our 1st doses of vaccines, so have our residents.

There are very few people who can’t have the vaccine for medical reasons, of course it’s their choice, but I wouldn’t want her caring for my mother. My MIL died from Covid last year, she caught it from one of her carers, she had no contact with anyone else.

I personally will have the vaccine once it's offered to me and have previously had lots of 'optional' before going on holidays - i.e. I'm not anti vax at all.

But saying you want to pressure people into taking it is totally wrong in my opinion. If that is the route we end up going down there needs to be a much, much higher payout if you had a life changing reaction to it than what the government is currently offering.

The company that employs the care workers are being paid either by your DM or via social care. I would tell the head office that you will take your money elsewhere if they can’t supply vaccinated carers.

As with other pp, I was required to be vaccinated against Hep B when I worked in an NHS hospital. In the midst of a global pandemic I can’t believe people are refusing the vaccine based on conspiracy theories. Everyone I know has been desperate to get it.

While I understand it may well be the personal choice of the carer, it’s also then your personal choice not to have thus carer

Her reasons don’t trump your mother’s health.

Would you have asked the carer if they'd had the flu vaccination pre-Covid? I think we're going down a slippery slope if people's personal medical information is now openly accessible for all to know about.

Wow. And how exactly do you think this should be enforced? I work on the front line and have done so tirelessly but I am also trying for my first child and I am in my 30s. Are you saying I can’t do my job? There is not enough information for me regarding fertility and the possible impact on pregnancy to make me want to have the vaccine and that is my choice.

Exactly what I was going to say @updatemate it somehow it never seems to be scientists and doctors refusing, it's support staff. Their job is extremely important - as someone who has cared for an elderly grandparent at the end of their life, a disabled person myself who depended on nurses after major surgery and a carer for my child with SN believe me I am not minimising their work at all! - but they are not medically trained to know about vaccines, because they don't need to be. If they don't trust the scientists and doctors yet are in some cases giving medical care to people who are unable to do it themselves isn't that actually quite worrying - what if they decide that a medicine they are helping a patient take isn't necessary? Obviously this is their own body but the fact they're telling people - essentially giving medical advice and causing vulnerable people to questions the experts - could convince their patients and genuinely cause deaths.

@JamieFrasersAuntie of course no one can "force" someone to have a vaccine, and that is not what is at question. What IS at question is whether vaccination could be required as a condition of employment - a very different matter.

I think it should be mandatory in certain professions. It can't be right that eight care home residents have covid, caught from carers who refused the vaccine and are presumably bringing it in while asymptomatic. I think carers have had a lot of support from the public over the past year, but could undo all of that now. They are risking lives for, in this case, daft reasons, according to the reasons they themselves have openly shared

Im a carer and I will leave if I am continually pressured into having an unlicensed experimental vaccine, and many others will too.