To insist on vaccinated carers

[Oblahdeeoblahdoe]

One of the carers who goes into my elderly mum has refused the vaccine (she told mum) I'm really annoyed and want to request to the management that she doesn't attend to mum anymore. I feel if she wants to do this job she should have the vaccine in order to protect her clients. I know there's no proof yet it will protect against transmission on but most scientists believe it will. AIBU?

@miffmufferedmoof

People saying that staff can't be sacked/redeployed for refusing the vaccine as it would be discrimination, are missing the fact that being anti-vax isn't a protected characteristic under the equality act. Employers could very easily sack anyone who's been employed with them for less than 2 years, and quite possibly sack others, although that's more open to challenge. Unless the vaccine refusal was directly due to pregnancy or disability (covered by the equality act), then you can't claim discrimination if you're sacked for not getting vaccinated

You need to add in muslims and poss other religious groups. They may win a case at employment tribunal too.

Employment cases take about 12 months to be heard, so cases will be heard end of this year and next year.

And frankly I think unless you have a valid medical reason for not being able to have a vaccine (or ttc, pregnancy etc) I think it should be ok to request that as a condition of employment

Can you not see that intention to TTC is personal information, it's certainly not something I'd be willing to share with my employer.

So many people here insisting carers have to be vaccinated as if they are purely a commodity and not people with their own minds.

I can understand service users and their families saying they want vaccinated staff, but that doesn't trump the rights of the staff to choose what to do with their own body.
I'm not anti vax, my parents have had their vaccine, I probably will have it at some point, but coercion against low paid workers is disgusting.

Yes, from the massive amounts of data from other mRNA vaccines

If you have some data to send me about ms and the vaccine please send it. I'm not interested in some random at the ms society claiming they know it's safe whilst also saying there's no data.

If you have some info about ms and other mRNA vaccines please send it.

Otherwise bore off telling me it's safe when there's no data I've seen to support it.

Non of the people I know refusing are bame.

I also don’t know of any elderly patients that would want to lose good carers because they arnt vaccinated- until their busy body kids get involved trying to tell them how to live their lives!

Perhaps those that consider those of us who don't wish to have a covid vaccination to be selfish idiots believing in conspiracy theories or uninformed posts on social media might take a moment to consider that at least some of us are basing that decision on reading material that has caused some doubt in our minds as to the safety of vaccines.

I started reading a few books hoping to have my mind put at rest as to the safety of vaccines, but found the information within did nothing to alleviate my concerns, but quite the opposite. For anyone interested, I suggest :
Vaccine Science Revisited, by James & Lance Morgan
The Vaccine Papers, by Janine Roberts
Vaccine Illusion, by Tetyana Obukhanych
Vaccine A :The covert government experiment, by Gary Matsumoto
The Truth about Vaccines, Dr Richard Halvorsen
Miller's Review of Critical Vaccine Studies, by Neil Miller

There are plenty more, but honestly it is so galling to read so many posts by people who have done no research whatsoever accusing those of us with concerns as "mindless anti-vaxers". There are legitimate concerns about the safety of vaccines and trying to force everyone into having a vaccine is just plain wrong.

@miffmufferedmoof

People saying that staff can't be sacked/redeployed for refusing the vaccine as it would be discrimination, are missing the fact that being anti-vax isn't a protected characteristic under the equality act. Employers could very easily sack anyone who's been employed with them for less than 2 years, and quite possibly sack others, although that's more open to challenge. Unless the vaccine refusal was directly due to pregnancy or disability (covered by the equality act), then you can't claim discrimination if you're sacked for not getting vaccinated

They would sack them at their peril......Case law cases will be coming before before the supreme courts as early as the end of this year and it would be an unwise employer ( in my opinion) who goes off at a tangent and does their own thing without waiting to see judicial precedents set. There are going to be lots of rich barristers at the end of this. ....( yes I have had the vaccine.....feel like I have to mention that every time I post🙄)

I can understand your concerns op, we have elderly parents with daily carers going in. However, it is absolutely outrageous to force any vaccination into a person in order for them to keep their job (livelihood!). Particularly a vaccination that’s brand new and most probably of vanishingly small benefit to a fit healthy person in their 20s.
I know it bloody hurts when it’s your own parents, but I would not expect all those seeing and treating my parents and fil to be vaccinated. It’s up to them - you are suggesting a pretty serious breach of personal choice imo.

@JamieFrasersAuntie

Yes, from the massive amounts of data from other mRNA vaccines

If you have some data to send me about ms and the vaccine please send it. I'm not interested in some random at the ms society claiming they know it's safe whilst also saying there's no data.

If you have some info about ms and other mRNA vaccines please send it.

Otherwise bore off telling me it's safe when there's no data I've seen to support it.

I don't have any data to send you but there's plenty out there for anyone willing to wade through it and clever enough to understand it.

I don't think any of it would change your mind though.

@pinkseal

Perhaps those that consider those of us who don't wish to have a covid vaccination to be selfish idiots believing in conspiracy theories or uninformed posts on social media might take a moment to consider that at least some of us are basing that decision on reading material that has caused some doubt in our minds as to the safety of vaccines.

I started reading a few books hoping to have my mind put at rest as to the safety of vaccines, but found the information within did nothing to alleviate my concerns, but quite the opposite. For anyone interested, I suggest :
Vaccine Science Revisited, by James & Lance Morgan
The Vaccine Papers, by Janine Roberts
Vaccine Illusion, by Tetyana Obukhanych
Vaccine A :The covert government experiment, by Gary Matsumoto
The Truth about Vaccines, Dr Richard Halvorsen
Miller's Review of Critical Vaccine Studies, by Neil Miller

There are plenty more, but honestly it is so galling to read so many posts by people who have done no research whatsoever accusing those of us with concerns as "mindless anti-vaxers". There are legitimate concerns about the safety of vaccines and trying to force everyone into having a vaccine is just plain wrong.

Dr Richard Halvorsen? Reknowned anti-vaxxer, anti-MMR, chum to Wakefield. I don't know the others but that name screams out as thoroughly discredited. Your reading list is hardly reliable information.

Love how we only talk about “carers”. If any of you were to go on Facebook and check out the group “nhs carers for choice” you would see that there are absolutely thousands of health care professionals that do not want or will not have the vax. Doctors, midwives, pharmacists, every single category of front facing care. But yeah, only discuss the carers because they must all be thick.

pinkseal

Is there a reason you've only chosen to read books? And particularly books by vaccine sceptics? Why not peer reviewed journals? Journals are a much more reliable, up to date and largely unbiased source of thousands of pieces of research. There's research by vaccine sceptics, by 'big pharma', independent research. And it's easily accessible and similarly priced to sell those books you've read (and often available through libraries). But much more impartial.

Who recommended those particular books to you? Or what search terms did you use to find them?

Will she refuse to let paramedics treat her too, if they havent had the vaccine?

@Dodododahdahdah

Love how we only talk about “carers”. If any of you were to go on Facebook and check out the group “nhs carers for choice” you would see that there are absolutely thousands of health care professionals that do not want or will not have the vax. Doctors, midwives, pharmacists, every single category of front facing care. But yeah, only discuss the carers because they must all be thick.

What reasons are they giving please?

@pinkseal

Perhaps those that consider those of us who don't wish to have a covid vaccination to be selfish idiots believing in conspiracy theories or uninformed posts on social media might take a moment to consider that at least some of us are basing that decision on reading material that has caused some doubt in our minds as to the safety of vaccines.

I started reading a few books hoping to have my mind put at rest as to the safety of vaccines, but found the information within did nothing to alleviate my concerns, but quite the opposite. For anyone interested, I suggest :
Vaccine Science Revisited, by James & Lance Morgan
The Vaccine Papers, by Janine Roberts
Vaccine Illusion, by Tetyana Obukhanych
Vaccine A :The covert government experiment, by Gary Matsumoto
The Truth about Vaccines, Dr Richard Halvorsen
Miller's Review of Critical Vaccine Studies, by Neil Miller

There are plenty more, but honestly it is so galling to read so many posts by people who have done no research whatsoever accusing those of us with concerns as "mindless anti-vaxers". There are legitimate concerns about the safety of vaccines and trying to force everyone into having a vaccine is just plain wrong.

Why would people waste their time reading literature that has not been peer reviewed?🤔

@Dodododahdahdah

Love how we only talk about “carers”. If any of you were to go on Facebook and check out the group “nhs carers for choice” you would see that there are absolutely thousands of health care professionals that do not want or will not have the vax. Doctors, midwives, pharmacists, every single category of front facing care. But yeah, only discuss the carers because they must all be thick.

I think it's because op started a thread about carers.

I responded because DIL is a carer.

@rawlikesushi - so you've heard of one author but want to completely dismiss the rest without even taking a second to check. Fgs.

I have no intention of discussing on here why my DM has paid carers. All I will say is that my DM and I greatly appreciate the care she receives and frequently express this to the people concerned. I am however not pleased that this particular carer telling my DM that she refused the vaccine, in quite a dismissive manner from what my DM says. As I said earlier on, the family have made great sacrifices in order to keep Mum safe and I don't want this jeopardised by an anti-vaxer.

Hardly comparable, paramedics aren't providing daily care to OP's mum.

Also, pretty sure that an unvaccinated paramedic will be as rare as hen's teeth.
As a clinician, I don't know any other clinical workers who've declined the vaccine.

Dodododahdahdah I can't find that group

@Dodododahdahdah

Love how we only talk about “carers”. If any of you were to go on Facebook and check out the group “nhs carers for choice” you would see that there are absolutely thousands of health care professionals that do not want or will not have the vax. Doctors, midwives, pharmacists, every single category of front facing care. But yeah, only discuss the carers because they must all be thick.

That group doesn't come up when I search Facebook. Is that definitely the name? I'm interested. Can you link?

[quote pinkseal]@rawlikesushi - so you've heard of one author but want to completely dismiss the rest without even taking a second to check. Fgs.[/quote]
Yes because anyone who includes that book in their list of 'research' has just negated their own argument.

@Dodododahdahdah

Love how we only talk about “carers”. If any of you were to go on Facebook and check out the group “nhs carers for choice” you would see that there are absolutely thousands of health care professionals that do not want or will not have the vax. Doctors, midwives, pharmacists, every single category of front facing care. But yeah, only discuss the carers because they must all be thick.

I can’t find this group either???🤔 can you check you got the right name for the group please and then post....thanks

Why are you all bothering searching for this Facebook group? If it does exist , it's probably full of struck-off clinical staff.

Think @Dodododahdahdah has gone to bed 😜

You're definitely reasonable.