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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To insist on vaccinated carers

307 replies

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 08/02/2021 18:57

One of the carers who goes into my elderly mum has refused the vaccine (she told mum) I'm really annoyed and want to request to the management that she doesn't attend to mum anymore. I feel if she wants to do this job she should have the vaccine in order to protect her clients. I know there's no proof yet it will protect against transmission on but most scientists believe it will. AIBU?

OP posts:
AStudyinPink · 08/02/2021 19:34

No but by requesting someone else there's more of a chance of getting a vaccinated carer, you know for a fact this one isn't so it's well worth asking for another carer.

Perhaps so. But there are no guarantees. The new carer might be less suitable in other ways.

Imapotato · 08/02/2021 19:35

I think YABU here. I know it’s a concern but it is the carers choice whether she wants to be vaccinated or not. I work for the NHS and several of my colleagues have declined it at present. Especially those planning to have children in the near future.

So long as you’re mum is vaccinated and the carer is wasting appropriate PPE I don’t see it as a massive issue. We can’t go forcing vaccines on people.

Meowtha · 08/02/2021 19:35

My DH works at a large famous hospital in the uk. I'm gobsmacked at the number of his colleagues that are refusing the offer of the vaccine.

peasinmysoup · 08/02/2021 19:36

@Whatwouldido

Vaccine won’t stop it being caught or passed on.
This It will only stop the vaccinated person from getting really sick.
TrufflyPig · 08/02/2021 19:37

Perhaps so. But there are no guarantees. The new carer might be less suitable in other ways

Maybe, but I would definitely roll the dice, she could end up with an even better carer who has been vaccinated.

Sadsiblingatsea · 08/02/2021 19:40

The fact that so many people in the medical field are refusing this vaccine tells you everything.
How is it even legal to pressurise underpaid workers like carers to have a medical procedure they don’t want?

mootymoo · 08/02/2021 19:41

Dps DD's care couple told their staff they had to be vaccinated unless a medical profession stated they couldn't for medical reasons if they didn't, they wouldn't get shifts

Anothermother3 · 08/02/2021 19:44

What I don’t get is how it is mandatory to ensure you have had other vaccines before starting work in healthcare trusts but somehow saying healthcare staff should have it to uphold their duty to patients is suddenly a huge rights infringement. Honestly have little patience with people who are putting others at risk.

Original poster
Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 08/02/2021 19:44

I am amazed to hear of so many medics and carers refusing the vaccine, what's going on?
The care company is very good and provides various carers throughout the week, although this one generally comes on the same two days a week, so I think the chance of DM getting a good carer is high. I'm not sure the company would know who has had it but they all had to go to the same place so they probably do know who refused.

OP posts:
TrufflyPig · 08/02/2021 19:45

It will only stop the vaccinated person from getting really sick

Not true. Its was unknown if the vaccine was effective at reducing transmission or not when it was approved. Early studies are suggesting that it is effective at reducing the spread of covid.

rawlikesushi · 08/02/2021 19:49

@Sadsiblingatsea

The fact that so many people in the medical field are refusing this vaccine tells you everything. How is it even legal to pressurise underpaid workers like carers to have a medical procedure they don’t want?
I don't agree with pressurising them. But 50% of carers at DILs care home refused the vaccination, and now they have eight residents with covid. I can't get my head around it really, or how that can be ok. especially as it's for stupid reasons.
BiggestJulie · 08/02/2021 19:51

A top London law firm thinks it might be possible for care homes employers to insist on vaccination. From Pinsent Masons:

"Can employers mandate vaccination?

An instruction to take the vaccine could be regarded as a 'reasonable instruction' on the part of the employer, but that will depend on the circumstances. For example, employers in the social care sector may be able to issue a reasonable instruction to employees to take the vaccine because refusal could put vulnerable people at risk."

The law is unclear, and needs to be tested. I certainly would not want an unvaccinated worker caring for my parents.

DogsSausages · 08/02/2021 19:55

Emergency and frontline health workers have been looking after patients in hospital and the community without being vaccinated, no one cared about them,

bg21 · 08/02/2021 19:57

nope you absolutely have that right and they must supply the vaccinated staff if available don't be fobbed off at all !

CaveMum · 08/02/2021 19:59

My cousin (early 50s) works in a care home and has refused the vaccine. I think she’s bonkers and wouldn’t be surprised if many care homes start insisting on staff being vaccinated, unless they have a medical reason not to.

GeorgiaGirl52 · 08/02/2021 20:01

Depends on where you are located. DD2 works in a care home for brain-damaged adults. Head office said all workers (even those in office with no direct contact) must have shots. Anyone who refused would be given a reference but their contract would be terminated immediately.
In our state, medical workers are a special class and not subject to all those "protections" provided to regular union workers.
After the next meeting of the legislature, public/state school teachers will likely be a special class and also required to have vaccinations.

DogsSausages · 08/02/2021 20:01

If employers insist carers have the vaccine then will they also insist residenrs/clients and their visitors also have the vaccine.

Wishitsnows · 08/02/2021 20:02

I would absolutely request a vaccinated carer for my parents and wouldn't hire someone who hadn't had it done

TheCatThatGotTheCream · 08/02/2021 20:04

@Twistered

I feel if she wants to do this job she should have the vaccine in order to protect her clients.

You may feel this but employment law may differ

I'm not denying what employment law says because I don't actually know. However I'm a nurse who works in the NHS and as part of my conditional offer of employment (and of getting into uni to study nursing) was that we were vaccinated against Hep B and had had other vaccines, unless there was a genuine medical reason not to. So I honestly don't know how things will go in the future in regards to giving employers the mandate to insist on future employees having been vaccinated. I doubt they could make such changes to workers employment contracts retrospectively though.
Redskyyy · 08/02/2021 20:08

Yanbu. When my dd had carers I was fuming that they declined the flu jab. She was vvv high risk from things like flu (and in the end died from a virus just like flu). I know it’s personal choice but find it bizarre that people working in the care profession, caring for medically vulnerable people would not choose to take whatever extra protection is possible.

Original poster
Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 08/02/2021 20:08

@BiggestJulie

A top London law firm thinks it might be possible for care homes employers to insist on vaccination. From Pinsent Masons:

"Can employers mandate vaccination?

An instruction to take the vaccine could be regarded as a 'reasonable instruction' on the part of the employer, but that will depend on the circumstances. For example, employers in the social care sector may be able to issue a reasonable instruction to employees to take the vaccine because refusal could put vulnerable people at risk."

The law is unclear, and needs to be tested. I certainly would not want an unvaccinated worker caring for my parents.

Thanks for this. I might give the office a call in the morning to see what their point of view is. Thanks for everyone's input.
OP posts:
Kitkat151 · 08/02/2021 20:10

@Oblahdeeoblahdoe

I am amazed to hear of so many medics and carers refusing the vaccine, what's going on? The care company is very good and provides various carers throughout the week, although this one generally comes on the same two days a week, so I think the chance of DM getting a good carer is high. I'm not sure the company would know who has had it but they all had to go to the same place so they probably do know who refused.
I get what you are saying I really do and I would want the same if it was my mum.....unfortunately no employer would go down the route of changing careers based on their vaccination status, without breaking the law for being in breach of The Equality Act ( 2010) which protects employees from discrimination in the workplace.
PurplePolarBears · 08/02/2021 20:11

Hmm. I'm a carer.

I'd say about 50%of my colleagues dont want the vaccine. 25% are putting it off. Only about 25% have actually had it. I dont get why, I feel privileged to have had it!

If every one insisted they want carers with the vaccine there would not be enough carers to go round!

Obbydoo · 08/02/2021 20:12

Unfortunately I think you would be refused if you asked for a vaccinated carer. However, I do think you should raise it with them as an area of concern. I think we need to put pressure on those that are refusing to do the right thing. It's selfish and stupid not to get it done. I'd like to see more and more issues raised like this in the media in order that the idiots can see that their selfishness will not be socially acceptable.

TrufflyPig · 08/02/2021 20:13

@PurplePolarBears

Do you mind sharing the reasons why some of your colleagues haven't been vaccinated (if you know)? I'm curious to know.

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