To wonder why people think everyone should drive

[Sunnydays999]

Tried several times in my 20s .My dyslexia means I find some aspects hard . I also have anxiety and driving made this worse .
My husband drives . He has always driven on holidays and days out .
It surprises me on here and in real life how shocked people are that I don’t drive . I just wondered why ?

@wellthatsunusual
what was the point of your anecdote then if not to be negative about non drivers?

It was a direct response to the poster who did a shoulder shrug and a 'why can't you just get a taxi?'. My personal experience has been that people who ask for a lift want just that, they don't want a taxi and the transaction that goes with it.

Any although I didn't mention it in that post (although I did mention it further upthread) it's not always easy to get a taxi anyway.

What it boils down to really is people who judge non drivers are snobs. Just admit it. You prob judge people who live in council houses too.

And I would rather be a non driver than a snob any day of the week.

@exiledfromcornwall

The problem with becoming reliant on car ownership is that you never know what's around the corner. My husband is currently unable to drive because he had a seizure which came out of the blue and was diagnosed with encephalitis, meaning he had to surrender his driving license. As I mentioned previously I don't drive because I just couldn't hack it. Fortunately, we are retired and we live in a town with shops within walking distance, so we are managing with online shops and local top-ups, and of course due to covid we can't do a lot else at the moment anyway. However, if he were still working and we were living out in the sticks he would be stuffed.

This is a very good point. We do live in a city fairly centrally and have shops within walking distance and ok public transport but not as good as it was, but we still like to have the added flexibility of a car while we can.

It's about a 50/50 split between friends I know who drive and dont drive (all early 30s not in London). The two people who dont drive always stand out for me though

Person 1 claims to not drive because of dyspraxia (fair enough) but will happily be ferried around by people for lifts without offering petrol money. I've stopped the lifts now, but she will then ask her DParents who live 50 miles away to come and pick her up/move her into a new house as shes too tight to hire a removal van

Person 2, attempted driving but it's not for her (again fair enough), but definitely expects lifts and thinks cars are free transport as its not like shelling money out in bus fair etc. Always acts shocked when someone asks her for petrol money, or seems tired after driving a long way.

Apart from that, everyone else I know who dont drive are lovely and always grateful.

Not speaking too much out of term here as I was a late driver and passed in my mid 20s, but can certainly never remember being that entitled

It was a direct response to the poster who did a shoulder shrug and a 'why can't you just get a taxi?'. My personal experience has been that people who ask for a lift want just that, they don't want a taxi and the transaction that goes with it.
So yes, you were being negative and the poster was me

@Twobrews

It was a direct response to the poster who did a shoulder shrug and a 'why can't you just get a taxi?'. My personal experience has been that people who ask for a lift want just that, they don't want a taxi and the transaction that goes with it. So yes, you were being negative and the poster was me

Sorry, I didn't notice that you were the poster who had asked.

But I answered your question and you don't like the answer. I thought it was a discussion, which is why I answered.

@Notimeforaname I've never had any desire to drive

I was the same, always managed. Grew up I a household without a car, I remember friends being aghast but it was just normal to me. I do think the desire to drive may be linked to life stage though.

When I had kids and they started missing things I physically couldn't get them to that was when the benefits of driving outweighed not driving for me & so I learnt as an anxious adult. Driving has been a revelation to me as I obviously managed before but it has just made things possible that previously I had to do lots of logistical planning for e.g. DC invited to climbing party in neighbouring town I would have had to research bus / train times & then allow time to walk to the venue and same for jorney back, often with another DC in tow and as they got bigger and had to pay for them on public transport it got more expensive. Or DC's rugby matches I would have had to ask for lifts to matches fortnightly.
When I'm older and no longer need to transport DC and their kits around I expect I 'll happily retire and just use public transport again.

I thought it was a discussion, which is why I answered.

Well yes, it is. Which I was simply replying that your one negative experience doesn't mean all non drivers are the same. You said you weren't so I just wondered what the point of the anecdote was if not to portray non drivers negatively. You don't seem to know so let's leave it at that.

VaVaGloom yes I see the absolute need for a car in a situation like yours!
I wont be having children so I'll only ever have to ferry myself around when I'm not bumming lifts

It’s just a useful life skill, a bit like being able to tie your shoes laces or make food to eat.

That’s extremely rude and ignorant, as well as completely entitled to assume things you can do every day with ease are a basic life skill everyone can do.

My sister has dyspraxia and has tried many times, she just can’t do it.

There are many people out there for which you may scoff at that they can’t do a simple task so woo lucky you that you are so privileged, not everyone is so lucky.

I drive, but I don't have a car cause I really cannot justify the cost.

The trouble in these threads is that people debating have different lifestyles and areas. One argues that it is annoying to be the one driving when others are drinking, then another one wonders why they are driving to a bar anyway cause you could just take the tube or an uber. Similarly, one says that it's impossible to get to anywhere without a car but then the other one driving to work would require extra hour to try and find parking.

I don't really see an issue with not driving as long as you are not expecting others to drive you and if they do, as long as you offer to pay for something it should be fine.

@Twobrews

I thought it was a discussion, which is why I answered.

Well yes, it is. Which I was simply replying that your one negative experience doesn't mean all non drivers are the same. You said you weren't so I just wondered what the point of the anecdote was if not to portray non drivers negatively. You don't seem to know so let's leave it at that.

I know exactly what my point was. Which was that I have had negative experiences of being asked for lifts and to explain why your suggestion to just tell everyone to take a taxi doesn't always go down well.

I have not demonised all non drivers, I've posted several times on this thread and I said right at the start that it's not the non driving that bothers me (why would it?) it's non drivers expecting me to compensate for their choice. Why would I lie and pretend that doesn't happen?

I'm not surprised to meet someone who can't drive, I know quite a few.

I didn't have a car for around 6 years. Most of that was living in London so no need to have a car. Once I moved out of London to a small town I got a car about 4 months later. I was in the town centre so could get shopping etc fine and got the train into work because i work in a city centre, but it just became very inconvenient. I found that I COULD get most places without a car, but it required loads of planning/took ages/was expensive or was a burden on others. For example if I wanted to go have lunch with my parents in a nearby village I could either spend £60 on taxis there and back, over 3 hours on buses, or get them to come get me and take me back again (I did the latter but understandably I don't think they'd have been too happy about that being a permanent solution!) It's now a 20 minute drive in the car.

When it comes to meeting friends who don't drive, I would say it's a little annoying sometimes, as I always go to them or pick them up. I wouldn't say I'm resentful about it though (as long as they don't automatically assume I'll do so with no thanks) as I'm sure people often have good reasons like money or health issues.

I have a lot of sympathy for people with anxiety about driving. I used to be incredibly anxious about it. I think I must be close to the record for most tests ever taken because I just tensed up! But I've had CBT recently (not specifically for driving) and that's helped massively. I now feel like I'm a really good driver and I love the freedom it's given me.

I agree it's a useful skill to have, and I've been glad of it on several occasions due to family emergencies, but it's not essential to everyone.

75% of adults in the UK have a driving licence. According to this thread, the other 25% , millions of people, are pathetic,childish,incapable,unimaginative people with boring lives and no independence.

It's quite a judgement on a massive amount of people.

To add to the stats, only 17% of people in England and Wales live rurally. All of them seem to be on MN

What it boils down to really is people who judge non drivers are snobs. Just admit it. You prob judge people who live in council houses too.

I certainly don't judge non-drivers as a group - only the ones who could learn and pay for a car, but, instead of walking or using public transport/taxis - or asking for an occasional lift (ideally offering fuel money) - act entitled and prefer to treat drivers as a free taxi on a regular basis.

Those who live their lives differently and make sustainable independent arrangements that are appropriate for their circumstances receive no judgment from me at all. I do wonder how they manage, as I find driving essential for so many things (would do even if I didn't have a disability) - but that's none of my business and down to my limited understanding of other people's lives.

Assuming something as dreadfully old-fashioned as humans are still needed to drive cars by then, we will be greatly encouraging and facilitating our DS to learn when he is old enough, but anybody else is not within our remit to influence.

@PattyPan

To add to the stats, only 17% of people in England and Wales live rurally. All of them seem to be on MN

Would be interesting to know how that statistic defines rural!

I live in a village of 6000 inhabitants, just 5 miles from the centre of small city. I imagine we'd be "defined" as urban, yet we don't actually have any buses in the evenings nor Sundays, so being so close to a city doesn't really help us and in reality, we are rural.

Is it snobbery? My family background has an obsession with bricks and mortar bricks and mortar. I am a product of that in that it seems foolish to buy wheels before a house but i also understand it depends on many factors. I 2ouldnt have my house if id buckled to pressure to drive.

It's interesting that "I can't afford it" or "it's just my personal preference" are considered completely valid reasons for driving, but NOT valid reasons for non-driving.

Nobody tells drivers "so what just find the money to move somewhere with good public transport, you big stupid lying entitled narrow-minded unadventurous unambitious small-minded baby" but plenty of people feel comfortable telling non-drivers that exact thing.

Both sides think they're right.

Well no. Because it's not "people who think cars are essential for them personally" vs "people who don't think cars are essential for them personally". It's "people who think everyone should be exactly like them" vs "people who want to their right to make their own choices respected."

And people who keep banging on about "entitled non-drivers demanding to be ferried everywhere" - that has nothing to do with the fact they're non-drivers and everything to do with the fact they're CFs.

If those people did drive, they'd be engaging in all manner of non-driving related CFery.

Look at the zillions of stories about entitled school mums acting like CFs - you'd never post "some school mums are entitled and selfish, ergo no one should have children!" on the basis of a few bad apples, so why do the same to all non-drivers?

Most non-drivers are not CFs, and statistically it's likely that most CFs ARE drivers.

This thread has really highlighted the woeful public transport provision outside major cities, and its impact on car use.
Many of the drivers on this thread would manage just fine without their cars if they had a decent alternative.
Perhaps instead of being angry at people who can use public transport, we could lobby our MPs to improve public transport for everyone. There's clearly an untapped market for evening buses from rural villages to pubs, for example.

90% of the negativity and judgement has been from drivers towards non-drivers, not the opposite. There are only a couple of comments that are judgemental towards drivers, and those appear to have been said in defensiveness after being attacked for 30-odd pages.

This thread and similar past threads are littered with comments saying that anyone who doesn't drive is childish, selfish, casual dismissive "oh just find the money!" nonsense, comments that by not driving you're signalling to the world that you have no ambition and are an unadventurous person who never does anything spontaneous, posts stating as fact that not driving WILL limit your employment options, that you can't possibly live a full life without a car (because you can't... do something called a "tip run" and obey a sudden yen
to drive to a remote Scottish beach??) and if you believe otherwise you're just naive and ignorant, etc. etc. It's just really really nasty, totally snobbish, and unnecessary.

Unless you personally have a non-driver "demanding to be ferried about constantly" - in which case you have a CF problem, not a non-driver problem - it's really none of your business what choices other people feel fit their lifestyles.

Wow, some of the patronising dismissiveness towards non-drivers on this thread is really demoralising. It’s bad enough that I sometimes think of myself as not a real adult because I can’t drive, but it’s a bit depressing to know that strangers see me that way too.

I never had a driving lesson until I was 30 because I had always lived in big cities where I really didn’t need it, and I knew it wouldn’t come naturally so I put it off. When I was expecting DC2 I signed up for an intensive course. In the seven years since then I’ve had four different instructors (we moved in the meantime, they didn’t all give up on me!) and over 10 failed tests (I’ve genuinely lost count). I just can’t do it. I’ve managed, somehow, to get to grips with the basic mechanics of it, although I’ve never found anything harder. But combining them with the second by second judgements required to assess what’s happening around me, respond to the unpredictable etc... it’s not how my brain is wired. I’ve spent horrifying amounts of money on something that I find deeply stressful because I fully recognise how much more convenient it would make my life, but at some point the responsible decision for my own mental health, finances, and the safety of other road users has to be that I recognise that driving’s not for me. I’m sorry that some people see that as “pathetic”.