To ask if you have a child who identifies as trans or expresses disconnect between their gender and sex?

[Scroremanga]

I remember a post which asked how many people on mumsnet felt a disconnect between their gender and sex. Out of 1000 respondents, 10 per cent said they did.

How about people are aware their child or children feel that their gender and sex are disconnected?

Yabu-I am pretty sure my child feels aligned with their sex and gender

Yanbu - my child expresses that they are do not feel

It would also be helpful whether to know whether ds or dd thats experiencing this

Thanks

There’s loads of gc parents on fwr whose own kids are trans. The mums tend to end up at fwr because their kids says their trans and they start researching. Completely disenguinous to suggest we claim our kids would never be trans. I have girls who have autism, they are the most at risk group of being pushed into this.

is an internal sense of themselves as the opposite sex to that assigned at birth

The thing here is that it is not logical for a transperson to assume they know that their "internal sense of themselves" is of the opposite sex.

It's an extraordinarily binary way of thinking. It's also illogical & unverifiable.

Most people don't have an "internal sense" of their sex. They just are their sex.

If you (and I mean "one" here, not "you" as in direct 2nd person singular address) feel disconnected from your material sexed body, how do you know that your "feeling" is of the other sex? You cannot know. You just cannot. And I contend it's very arrogant to think you can. This arrogance is often exercised by men, who say they have an "internal sense" of being a woman, but their way of showing that is a generally pretty offensive set of "feminine" stereotypes, with a dose of masculine arrogance & entitlement thrown in.

The disconnect between your mind and your body needs to be healed, but I'd suggest it's a matter of your mind, not your body, being "wrong." A body dysmorphia (or dysphoria)must be very painful to live with - look at the dreadful toll anorexia & bulimia take on bodies - but it needs treating as what it is.

Oh, and sex is observed at birth. You can't change it.

Dont we owe it to our children to find out whats behind their dysphoria because only then can we support them the best way.

@LastRoloIsMine. I agree with you and would love to know how you would approach it, with say a 16 or 17 year old.

Thank you for the link. Lots of research was on people who had already taken hormones so not a lot can be surmised from that. At best is showed biological correlates rather than cause. But as different experiences shape our biology and our neurology I think this is a long way from proving that gender identity is biologically based.

and in case anyone wonders. My dds know that they can never change sex. They know the dangers of puberty blockers and hormones. They know that their brains don't stop growing until they are 25 and so it is foolish to make any life changing decisions before then.

We have also talked about the massive increase in kids identifying and the large numbers detransitioning, and the comments they make about pressure and not being listened to. We talk about teenage angst and how all teens struggle with identity to some degree, and about the strangeness of our bodies in puberty.

and we talk and talk and talk.

I firmly believe that 90% of the kids identifying as something other than their birth sex at the moment are taken up with the modern trend for gender identity.

But that still leaves 10%. Any quick traverse through history will show you that there have always been trans men and women among us. Mostly, in contrary to what is happening now, men who wanted to be women. It is a part of who we are as human beings. I remember reading Jan Morris's autobiography in the 80s. Years before this was a popular issue. Like jj1968 she was trans.

Completely disenguinous to suggest we claim our kids would never be trans.

Might want to read the thread.

@IWillSqueakAgain

Stop co-opting the experience of intersex people. You know fine well the intersex community have spoken up against the tra’s using their lives experience to argue trans ideology.

Beside its bs to say the doctors wait and see and ‘assign’ a gender. Even people who have intersex conditions have chromosomes that show they are either male or female. A chromosome abnormalities doesn’t change that reality.

Sometimes the theory doesn't match the practice. And I'm not co-opting intersex people, I'm merely explaining one of the key ways scientific understanding of gender identity has come about. I can understand why some gender critical activists are so quick to try and shut that part of the debate down though.

I don't identify with anything about gender.
It's a completely alien and regressive concept to me.

@IWillSqueakAgain

There’s loads of gc parents on fwr whose own kids are trans. The mums tend to end up at fwr because their kids says their trans and they start researching. Completely disenguinous to suggest we claim our kids would never be trans. I have girls who have autism, they are the most at risk group of being pushed into this.

hmm, wonder where I got the idea form that people claim their kids wouldn't be trans?

Oh! maybe it was the page after page of people saying - no my kids don;t question their gender as I brought them up with no gender stereotypes. I am not being disengunious. I am reflecting the thread

and one of my dds is in the process of getting an autism diagnosis.

The intersex community have repeatedly publicly expressed their unhappiness with tra’s co-opting they’d experience and using it to push trans ideology. It’s hugely disrespectful to disregard that.

@jj1968
Don’t spread bullshit in the name of science.

Sorry but in our house (I can't speak for others) that is a load of old shit
I am the main breadwinner. DP does the "female" roles of cooking, cleaning, and housework traditionally attributed to females and housewives.
Even in lockdown, our DS laughed because DP was in the kitchen, cooking the roast and washing up, whilst I was in our bathroom fixing the water pressure and reattaching the shower holder as it had fallen down, complete with builder like swearing about "what utter Bellend put this up before with no rawl plugs?"
I don't do skirts. I don't do heels. I don't faff about with hair dos (dp cuts my hair), or having my nails done. In fact, everyone was laughing about when we get married it would be more appropriate for my clothes horse DP to wear the frock than me.
So no. In our house, DD has strong female role models in me and her extended family, as well as traditional male role models, traditional female role models. We have a big group of mixed gender and sexuality friends in different industries, different ages, different financial stability or otherwise.
For DD, it was a discussion at school on the point of gender roles and whether they were needed in the modern day world. It was linked to the whole "girls' toys" and "boys toys" discussion of a couple of years ago. DD is also massively into history.
So nope. Not always the case because I'm certainly not in a pinny and heels waiting on her dad's every whim.

And still the OP hasn't returned...

Pp was whinging about the feminist boards ranting about have some idea of what it might be like for parents of trans kids.

Plenty of mums are on fwr because their kids are trans. Plenty of us because our kids are at higher risk of it. And almost all of us are gnc and say we’d be the ones at risk of caught up in the current trans ideology if it was around when we were teens.

The idea we are outsiders looking in is bollocks because aside from the reality that most discussions around this are women’s rights being forcibly reframed as trans rights, most of us have strong connections to how this has effected our children, could effect our children, or how it relates to our experience of our sexed bodies growing up.

If somebody would have offered me, as a v gnc teen girl when young, puberty blockers and mastectomy I would have jumped at it. I would have been head first down the rabbit hole, because I would have done anything to not be a girl.

As a woman I spent 3 years using those breasts I would have willingly got rid of to nurse two babies.

So it’s personal to us how we would have been victims of this. The same way most of us were victims before gnc hit. The idea we might happily have jumped into transition, glad to blame our bodies for it all, it terrifying. Then we get to see our daughters at risk of it or going through it now.

LastRoloIsMine. I agree with you and would love to know how you would approach it, with say a 16 or 17 year old.

Small steps.
My 18 to DS as severe lMH issues. He hates discussing his feelings so trying to piece together where it came from was a long road.
I started small. Light probing questions that needed only a yes or no answer.
Eventually after around 18 months I found out my son was bady bullied aged 6. So bad it caused him anxiety which has not only stayed with him but spiraled out if control.

Its been the worst 2 years and so much trauma but we are out the other side. He is happier and calmer with his suicide attempts going from weekly to every 4 months or so.

I dont pretend its easy to have a confused and distressed child but what I will say 7s while I showed empathy for his feelings of self hatred and suicide I never once agreed with his reasons or bowed to his emotional blackmail which he used at every opportunity.

IWillSqueakAgain

whinging?

nice.

and as all of what you said applies to me, and yes I have been part of those debates, and yet, still, somehow this whole thread manages to vilify parents whose kids are trans, and the lack of sympathy for the kids themselves is breathtaking.

I ahve just seen a new thread started by someone who's dd has said they are agender.

First page, lots of posters telling her to tell the girl it is all a lot of nonsense. Because that is really going to help isn;t it?

@IWillSqueakAgain

The intersex community have repeatedly publicly expressed their unhappiness with tra’s co-opting they’d experience and using it to push trans ideology. It’s hugely disrespectful to disregard that.

I really think this sums up the disigenuous of the GC movement at times.

There are only two sexes! Sex is a binary not a spectrum! Gender identity doesn't exist! YOU MUST NOT TALK ABOUT INTERSEX PEOPLE!!!.

Bit convenient don't you think?

Not least because pretty much every intersex organisation in the world supports Self ID. But we're not allowed to mention that either.

When I started getting boobs as a teenager I was horrified and, to be honest, I still feel a bit of a dislike to them. No doubt caused by unwanted attention and comments. I also sometimes dressed in sweats and felt cool when I drank beer and had a few close male friendships. If I had of been a teen now I would be drawn to gender ideology. Luckily it was a long time ago as I am definitely a woman and have a beautiful child and having him has been the best experience of my life.

Intersex isn't trans

One is a clear physical condition the other is not

Not all gc people say gender identity does not exist

They are more likely to say

It's different to sex
It's less innate and more cultural than sex
It's generally harmful especially to females

Intersex isn't trans

I never said it was. Anyway it's not something I really want to get caught up in discussing but for those who are interested I just came across this quite interesting piece on how an understanding of gender identity has influenced the treatment of intersex children: abcnews.go.com/Health/intersex-children-pose-ethical-dilemma-doctors-parents-genital/story?id=13153068

Stop co-opting the experience of intersex people. You know fine well the intersex community have spoken up against the tra’s using their lives experience to argue trans ideology

Beside its bs to say the doctors wait and see and ‘assign’ a gender. Even people who have intersex conditions have chromosomes that show they are either male or female. A chromosome abnormalities doesn’t change that reality

Well said.

jj1968

There are only two sexes! Sex is a binary not a spectrum! Gender identity doesn't exist! YOU MUST NOT TALK ABOUT INTERSEX PEOPLE!!!.

Actually thats a lie.
GC people I follow on SM include intersex people who are passionate about fighting for understanding about their health conditions. GC people amplify their voices. It is the trans movement that seek to silence intersex people and shut them down because their reality shows just hoe FALSE the trans ideology is.

If somebody would have offered me, as a v gnc teen girl when young, puberty blockers and mastectomy I would have jumped at it. I would have been head first down the rabbit hole, because I would have done anything to not be a girl.

Around one in 200,000 young people are proscribed puberty blockers annually. Just 161 people in the last reported year. Are you absolutely sure you would have been one of them?

Around one in 200,000 young people are proscribed puberty blockers annually.

What is the age range of those 200,000 young people? Are they prescribed it for precocious puberty or for dysphoria?

We can be sure e we would be asking for them