To ask if you have a child who identifies as trans or expresses disconnect between their gender and sex?

[Scroremanga]

I remember a post which asked how many people on mumsnet felt a disconnect between their gender and sex. Out of 1000 respondents, 10 per cent said they did.

How about people are aware their child or children feel that their gender and sex are disconnected?

Yabu-I am pretty sure my child feels aligned with their sex and gender

Yanbu - my child expresses that they are do not feel

It would also be helpful whether to know whether ds or dd thats experiencing this

Thanks

I think to some extent what you are sayingDifficultPificultis that your DC being trans is no different from the fact that I hate my wonky nose?

From what my child has told me, its a similar feeling.

I understand the issues and my child has always used a third space, however once they start hormones and get surgery they won't.

Barracker I really don't need you to explain something that I have been living for over a decade, I have been through all the positives and negatives and probabilities and everything else, probably long before this was even on your radar.

I have been through the entire process, twice, I understand it on a personal level.

My child is now an adult.

I'm not trying to explain something to you.

I asked you if it gave you pause that your child was given this diagnosis without even meeting the necessary diagnostic criteria.

If this is still happening to other children, it is clearly a major issue that needs to be addressed. Cross-sex hormones, surgery and subsequent lifelong infertility that follow from such a misdiagnosis is unconscionable.

It isn't just about one child. It's about all children this will happen to. And whilst I have sympathy for every child who has been affected by this, I also think it's important that people continue to consider those who are not harmed yet, but are going to be if malpractice continues unchecked.

We can't undo the past but we can prevent harm in the future.

Thank you for your reply Difficult
Body dysphoria makes sense to me at an individual level and that one would seek to alleviate this.

Where I find it more difficult is that somehow this has become about gender (moving on from your post and your DC because it is more the non-binary aspect I am reflecting on in what I am saying now).

I was struck by the post way up thread where someone said someone they knew was non -binary because they did not like the baggage that came with being female (I paraphrase badly). And then someone else said but one cannot identify out of being female. I grew up in the eighties and with a female PM and a feminist mother, I honestly believed that growing up things would be equal, that I would go to university and have the same chances as a man. Whereas actually as soon as I was in the workplace, and more so when I had DC, I realised that this was not the case, then of course you add in experiences of pregnancy loss and sexual violence and actually, the whole experience of being female is still unequal, but also it goes beyond equality of opportunity and education (which is only partially achieved anyway) because there is a whole raft of things which happen because you have a female body.

So I wonder if the young people calling themselves non-binary a) have more recognition of inequality than I did, and b) recognise that fighting for equality for women as a class has not worked and c) think that it is more progressive to make an individual decision not to be female in order to reject the baggage that being female brings and progress themselves or at least feel more at unease in an unequal world.

(Of course, I think (c) is still being sold a lie. Just in a different way than I was in the eighties).

Not sure if that makes any sense at all, it is just my musings and effort to understand. Having non-binary as a category which young women opt into in order to avoid the baggage of being gendered female undermines the whole logic of feminism, which is to reject the baggage of being gendered female for all women (I think) whilst also protecting women who are vulnerable because they are sexed female (I think).

My child is nonbinary. They are assigned female at birth.

But what does non-binary actually mean? (Sorry if I sound stupid). This is where I get stuck (genuinely).

As my child has now explained to me, and as I said upthread, its the feeling of something being so wrong (such as people who want larger or smaller breasts, a smaller nose, their ears pinned back or whatever) that they have tried to live with it, and its so detrimental to their mental health that they simply can't, so they are now taking steps to align their body with how they feel they should look

I genuinely thank you lemon for trying to articulate this, it's way more than I usually get when i try and tease out what gender feels like for those it matters to.
Just looking at that analogy a little more, though, you'd know you had a different nose etc from seeing everyone else's and comparing the physical look of yours.
I can't see how one could compare their gender (or feelings of femininity etc) to anyone else's - unless they are assuming everyone who looks feminine has a female gender/ body and vice versa? Does every woman (or man) seem particularly uniform to them in a way that they can't see can ever encompass them? Have they reached this conclusion through what people say about being their sex or from what people look like?

I guess what I'm saying it, you can look around and see that your nose is different but you can't really look around superficially and see that your gender is different... can you?
Good luck to your child and I wish them happiness.

they knew was non -binary because they did not like the baggage that came with being female

Going by that definition, I've been non-binary since 1971, when I was 11. But instead of thinking I was special, I set about getting as well-educated in feminism, women's history, women's writing, and women's culture as I could. I speak up about women's rights, and sexism, and misogyny, whenever I can. And still do.

I wear what I like, and I do what I like.

There's a logical disconnect - or a basic illogicality - in this talk about "non-binary" because of not "feeling" female or male. It's a very binary way of thinking.

"Oh, I don't like the baggage that comes with being female" therefore I must be male, or non-binary. Very binary thinking - either/or.

The origins of Queer theory (whence all this came) were with philosophers such as Michel Foucault, who theorised about 'heterotopia' - fluidity, unfixedness. Not this proliferation of labels.

I asked you if it gave you pause that your child was given this diagnosis without even meeting the necessary diagnostic criteria.

Do you honestly think that I haven't painstakingly thought about and researched every single step of this, and that I need a stranger on the internet to tell me to stop and think about it?

I'm not stupid, this is the life and health and happiness of my child.

Have they reached this conclusion through what people say about being their sex or from what people look like?

I guess what I'm saying it, you can look around and see that your nose is different but you can't really look around superficially and see that your gender is different... can you?
Good luck to your child and I wish them happiness.

My child was really young when this feeling came about. They never remember feeling 'right' in their body, and were able to somewhat articulate that pretty early on in their life.

I cant explain it, they were so young and were telling me things I didn't understand and had never really heard of so we just found our way through this together as best we could.

It was never about stuff, they have brothers and sisters and all of my children have always been free to play with, wear, dress and have their hair exactly as they want. They were so young when they felt like this I can't explain how this would have come from any outside influence, but its not beyond the realms of possibility.

I have analysed every second of their life and I really don't understand why they feel as they do. Even they can't pinpoint a reason as such, not a person they admired, or something they were told they couldn't do or anything along those lines. I really do wish there was a reason or an explanation.

Along the way there have been some very hard times which I thought (hoped even) would maybe change my child's mind but they have remained consistent throughout.

Its scary as fuck and I would never have chosen this for them in a million years.

Thank you for wishing my child happiness, thats all I want for them.

So many stories from major news sources about parents with children who believe they're trans are affirming. Parents breathlessly expressing how thrilled they are to welcome their new daughter or son. That may be why so many posters assume those of us with trans identified children believe in gender stereotypes and think a kid unsnapping their onesie or pulling barrettes out of their hair means they're the opposite sex. I don't entirely blame people who think this. I used to think that way. I hope they've realized now that's not true and that it doesn't mean their kids can't also get caught up in this.

For the record, I don't affirm my daughter. I call her by the name she was given at birth, I use she/her pronouns and I don't use euphemisms like "top surgery". So many detransitioners say no one challenged them. Sadly they blame themselves.

There are lots of conditions I have no experience of and don’t make sense to me, but i am not so arrogant as to think that this means that my view is correct, people are making it up to be special, and that clinical intervention or lack thereof should be guided by ‘well it doesn’t make sense to me personally so it can’t be a real thing’. Silly post partum psychosis women! Just pull yourself together! It doesn’t make sense! Hey you with the agoraphobia, just go for a walk! Fibro? No such thing mate, get up off your arse.

That may be why so many posters assume those of us with trans identified children believe in gender stereotypes

I don't believe this is the case for all parents, not at all. Many parents do endorse stereotypes, but many do not. A child who has identified as trans has succumbed to some level of pressure to accept that to be female or male is a matter of thinking, feeling, identifying, behaving. Because that view, whilst it is pure stereotypes, is heavily promoted by schools, media, friends, celebrities. Parents struggle to counterbalance the scale of that misinformation.

Your child is lucky to have a parent who doesn't buy into male brain/female brain sexism, SkepticalParent. Your refusal to affirm what isn't true may be the anchor she needs to stop her being set adrift. It takes enormous resilience and strength to hold on to the truth when your child wants to hear a lie more than anything, and others are glad to"affirm' her and encouraging her to see hatred in anyone who won't say it.

I hope your daughter comes safely out of the other side of this unharmed and happy in acceptance of who she is.

Thanks, Barraker.
I have seen other kids come out the other side and most of them have non affirming parents. I'm seeing signs that my daughter is on her way out but it's fine line to walk so I mostly keep my mouth shut.

I know other parents who feel the same way I do and unless we're speaking to each other or a very few trusted people in our lives we're mostly silent. I wonder how many of us there actually are.

Yes sadly.

There are quiet forums for parents going through this I believe, to support and share with one another. I imagine there are many parents going through this but the intolerance towards anything other than affirmation makes it very difficult for them to find one another.
One of the most moving accounts I've read of a mother going through this with her child:

4thwavenow.com/2016/12/17/a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia-helps-her-daughter-desist/

@Barracker that was an amazing post, thank you for sharing the link. Extremely insightful!