What my manager said?

[Dipsandcrisps]

I have gone back to work (off maternity leave) this week and have been told that i cannot work from home unless I put my baby in a nursery, no nursery local to me is taking on any new children and with lockdown they have limited slots as it is. My manager has said I need to go part time (husband is home part of the week and can watch baby) as I cannot work at home if there is no one else there to watch the baby?

Aibu in thinking this would be the norm in pre-covid times and currently a lot of parents are working at home with children in their care? Obviously if we weren’t in the middle of a pandemic my baby would be in a nursery before I went back to work..

So confused with where I stand?

If every other parent but op is allowed, what would it be discrimination on the basis of?

If there's one thing I've got used to in the last 11 months is the numbers of children, babies, cats and dogs who regularly attend my work meetings. We've just all gotten used to it, especially given the numbers of my colleagues who are home schooling

For those colleagues with very small children the best solutions seem to be amongst couples who stick to fairly rigid childcare shifts i.e. mum does 8-12, dad does 12-4 and there's some flexibility both to work while the child sleeps. Where there are clashes, baby come too, providing some colour - literally so the time one child decided they didn't like lunch and launched the bowl at his mother from the highchair just as she was finishing up a presentation.

I do 3 days a week with a 20 month and a reception age child. But I only work 4 hours on those days as I only do 28 hours a week. I can work at any time of the day and tbh have been doing more than my 28 hours, even some extra weekend evening working to make sure deadlines are hit as I appreciate my boss is being very flexible. I returned to work from Mat leave in March 2020 after my second with family childcare arranged for 2 days and childminder the other 2 days with one day off. One week after my return lockdown happened, so family were unable to do childcare. Since early years provision has been allowed the childminder hasn't been able to offer more days and all others are full with huge waiting lists. My parents want to resume childcare once they have both had the vaccine, only mum had had it so far. It isn't easy going but you get used to it, and I don't find doing 4 hours work per day too bad.

I know people with babies, toddlers or slightly older children who still needed almost constant supervision, who were sent home in the first lockdown and just expected to get on with it - working and supervising children! You can't teach more than one child for 3-4 hours a day and do 8 hours' work in normal working hours, but many parents are being expected to do it (and somehow managing), so I don't really see how this situation is different. My point being, if all these people can do it/are just expected to do it, why is everyone so adamant that this employer is in the right? If that is the case, why aren't all parents asking to reduce their hours or leaving their jobs?

FWIW, I don't think any of this is fair on parents, and it's mainly women it's affecting, but if it's possible when it's the company's choice, why is it suddenly impossible if it's the employee's choice?

OP, I would be concerned that your company doesn't have the work for you and are just hoping that you'll choose to go part time or possibly leave, rather than them having to do anything that costs them money. Have they said how they will cover the rest of your work, or how the work will be split and what you will be expected to do?

Without reading the whole thread I would argue your employer might be discriminating and treating you differently returning to work unless they are insisting on everyone with small children cutting down to part time if the have children at home? LOADS of people are struggling with kids at home (at least as far as I can see from MN!) so it shouldn't be any different for you just because you are RTW. Also, can your job be done effectively from home? If so I would argue you should be at home full time, not just for the days you have the baby, based on current guidance.

Hello all, I’m genuinely so overwhelmed with the replies... sorry I clearly managed to fall asleep and baby woke up at her usual time, I have then spent some time on the phone to my mum.

I feel so grateful for every single reply, some give me perspective and others really good direction thank you so much.

I have wrote down a list of things I could suggest, I work as a social worker and my job can’t really be done in the evening (although sometimes we work well into the evening) however our work requires a lot of admin and assessment writing which is what I have offered to do on these days. I completely get why people are saying it would be difficult and I fully expect it to be.

Also to answer the questions about my husband leaving his job to care for the baby full time again we would be £1000 down, we have quite a few outgoings and we would struggle to manage on just my salary alone.

I have made a list of what I can do and come Monday and have messaged my manager for a meeting.

Also i pledge to actively engage in other threads (in my now working hours as I read a lot of threads on an evening with my coffee and sometimes I think ooh I can answer that but then I see someone has and worded it much better. However I realised today whilst reading every reply that every reply matters and to the lady who created an account to reply, honestly you’re a gem 😊

Without reading the whole thread I would argue your employer might be discriminating and treating you differently returning to work unless they are insisting on everyone with small children cutting down to part time if the have children at home?

Pre-school childcare is still open and childcare bubbles are a thing, so there's no reason to believe that there is anyone else with small children at home (by the time they get to primary school age, it's a bit different to pre-schoolers).
My colleagues with pre-school children who've had to self-isolate have ended up taking odd hours of annual leave to cover, because even with partners supporting and all the juggling in the world, there's only so much you can do.

Do you work for a local authority? (I don't know if social workers are employed by other organisations). If so, I would establish the authority's position on working from home and whether they have asked other employees to reduce their hours.

Ours has absolutely not done this and at the top level is being incredibly supportive to parents and others with caring responsibilities - it could be that your manager isn't actually implementing the guidance from above.

Yes I work for the local authority, I have just gone back so not had a chance to catch up with everyone and a lot of people are working from home (again I don’t know what their childcare arrangements are and they may well have childcare- lucky people) but I’m in the office as I need all my equipment before I can wfh. I actually do think I may request 4 days condensed in to 3, as we can manage financially if we lose 1 days pay but not both (it will still be difficult but we will survive) I wonder if I can ask my new contract to be temporary and that it can be changed back once I find childcare. I will also ask about furlough, thanks to everyone I know a lot more and have made a note of things to ask at my meeting.

I don't think local authority staff can get furlough

@katnyps

Without reading the whole thread I would argue your employer might be discriminating and treating you differently returning to work unless they are insisting on everyone with small children cutting down to part time if the have children at home? LOADS of people are struggling with kids at home (at least as far as I can see from MN!) so it shouldn't be any different for you just because you are RTW. Also, can your job be done effectively from home? If so I would argue you should be at home full time, not just for the days you have the baby, based on current guidance.

Discrimination means being treated differently due to having a protected characteristic.

If other people are allowed to work from home whilst looking after children, then OP can certainly ask why that is so, but I cannot see what protected characteristic is at play here or any evidence that she is being treated differently because of it.

@rosegold33 maybe try a stair gate and baby proof your house, just a suggestion🤷🏼‍♀️

I worked from home for 5 years whilst my children were under 5. They were always in childcare whilst I was working! Of course you cannot work from home at the same time as looking after a small child. I think your manager is being generous offering you to go part time given that you have no child care provision. Obviously COVID is causing problems but the only real option is to extend your mat leave or asked to be furloughed.

I think you need to try and understand what other parents at your company are doing and I'd probably speak to Citizens Advice. A lot of parents are having to provide care for children whilst WFH, and whilst I'm sure that isnt easy, if they can do it I'm sure you could do 2 days a week.
It would be different if we weren't in lockdown, but as you said, if it we weren't your little one would be in nursery.
Citizens Advice would be my first stop, but if they are letting other people WFH whilst not insisting their children are in school / day care, I don't think they can ask any different of you. I'd view it as discrimination, as you simply cannot treat employees differently.

I have nothing to add, but glad you’ve had lots of useful replies. I feel for you with the worry and anxiety. Your last update sounds more positive though, you’ve had good advice. I hope your meeting can sort things for you

It’s never been possible to WFH at the company I work for if you have children under 12 in the house at the same time with no other adult. You’re supposed to be working. You wouldn’t take a baby into an office with you. You can’t work and care for a baby at the same time. The company is paying you to work and focus your attention for those hours on their business needs, not your baby’s needs.

OP as you are LA staff please do check on any policy statements by senior management on how they are supporting staff with childcare responsibilities during lockdown. I'd be surprised if forcing them to go part-time and lose income is part of such a policy. A discussion about flexible working and compressed hours or similar should have happened first before your manager insisted that you go part-time. I'm public sector (not LA) and my employer is being far more understanding that yours and has issued specific policies and guidance on this.

Your manager would probably be right if this was normal times, but it isn't and so they may well not be following specific policy or guidance here. After all, you are in this position because your childcare provider is refusing to accept your child due to the COVID lockdown. General comments about nurseries being open is not really very helpful in this case.

LAs can use the furlough scheme btw, under certain circumstances.

@BritWifeinUSA

It’s never been possible to WFH at the company I work for if you have children under 12 in the house at the same time with no other adult. You’re supposed to be working. You wouldn’t take a baby into an office with you. You can’t work and care for a baby at the same time. The company is paying you to work and focus your attention for those hours on their business needs, not your baby’s needs.

I would argue that companies (and in this case public sector organisations) that take this kind of hard line during the current situation should expect zero discretionary effort from staff at other times. There are obvious compromises here given the relative short-term nature of this situation that can and should be explored before taking such a hard-line situation. Sadly many employers have little regard for staff, which is why they have high turnovers, low staff morale and poor performance.

@AliceMcK thanks for suggestion, have done everything to make it safe but leaving a 21month old in another room to take telephone calls or go on zoom to stop noise of a baby isnt safe. Ive tried and have to end calls to go and stop baby from climbing etc. Just not fessible.

@BritWifeinUSA

It’s never been possible to WFH at the company I work for if you have children under 12 in the house at the same time with no other adult. You’re supposed to be working. You wouldn’t take a baby into an office with you. You can’t work and care for a baby at the same time. The company is paying you to work and focus your attention for those hours on their business needs, not your baby’s needs.

Don’t be so sure! When I worked in London the majority of our staff worked from a regional office on a Friday, including me. Occasionally I would stay in London for the weekend so work from the main office. One such Friday I was sure I heard a baby crying. Went to investigate and found one of our press officers crawling around an office with his baby.

I was shocked, but once he had composed himself he said he had been doing it for the last few months “to give his partner (who was on Mat leave) a break”.

He was disciplined for it and the sanction was a deduction of salary for all those Fridays that he had brought his baby to work (they checked the CCTV). He was very lucky he didn’t lose his job for fraud.

Check your contract, it may say you can’t be in charge of an under 16/18 while working from home. This has obviously been waived during lockdown school closures for those who have no choice. Childcare for your baby is available somewhere. It might not be your first choice nursery/childminder but they are operating. All reputable nurseries have a properly managed waiting list/place system so it sounds like you dodged a bullet from the one who just dropped your place! Did you pay a reservation fee?
I have small kids, no way can I do my job while they are at home. Even the most chilled babies wake from naps at awkward moments. As your manager I would refuse your request and be well within the law to do so. Since your baby is still only 9 months co

This sounds really hard OP.

I am in the process of insisting that a member of my time finds childcare by an agreed deadline. However this is in a area where nursery childcare is available, they were reluctant to use childcare but that's not the point. I don't agree that it's possible to look after a preschooler and work (unless in an emergency) but it sounds like you don't have an option. I would get a medium term plan for place arranged and then look for temporary part time hours or part time furlough. If the reason for no childcare is the pandemic then that's something I think employers joule facilitate.

Check your terms and conditions of employment for maternity leave, as I currently believe you have to go back to the same post you left, unless prior approval by your employer to change hours, they have to cover the hours.
This should have crossed your horizon months ago. Best of luck

Wtf?!
That’s not fraud, what absolute nonsense

And it wouldn’t be legal for his pay to be docked either

Either someone has been telling you porkies, or this story has been exaggerated