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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What my manager said?

256 replies

Dipsandcrisps · 05/02/2021 02:27

I have gone back to work (off maternity leave) this week and have been told that i cannot work from home unless I put my baby in a nursery, no nursery local to me is taking on any new children and with lockdown they have limited slots as it is. My manager has said I need to go part time (husband is home part of the week and can watch baby) as I cannot work at home if there is no one else there to watch the baby?

Aibu in thinking this would be the norm in pre-covid times and currently a lot of parents are working at home with children in their care? Obviously if we weren’t in the middle of a pandemic my baby would be in a nursery before I went back to work..

So confused with where I stand?

OP posts:
RedGirl99 · 06/02/2021 22:45

OP, I know it seems and probably feels really harsh but your line manage isn't BU. I think you probably know deep down that you can't feasibly work and care for a 9 month old at the same time. The difference with older children being at home is the forced closure of schools; early years settings are still operating so the onus is on you to make sure you have adequate child care in place for your return to work.

Again, whilst it seems very harsh (and the nursery have been really shitty to land you in it like this) it's not your employers problem if you don't have anything in place. Having said that, all of the good advice has been given on this thread already e.g. compressed hours, using annual leave until you get sorted, etc., and a reasonable employer should at least show you a leeway for the next couple of weeks or so whilst you get sorted and find a more permanent solution.

Unfortunately, unless there are major details being held back, I can't see that you are being discriminated against (my area of expertise is employment law), but I really hope you can find a working solution with your employer as I can only imagine how stressful this us for you.

PS - please don't say you're sorted and WFH with your LO anyway, really bad advice and won't end well if it's uncovered!

Moondust001 · 06/02/2021 22:54

@Yorkie127

If I was your manager I would let you work flexibly (including reduced hours on full pay) provided you were absolutely committed to finding childcare to cover all working hours as quickly as possible.
You wouldn't if it wasn't your employers policy, or both of you would be in trouble.

Maybe some local authorities are still allowing staff to do both childcare and working at the same time. Ours hasn't since June 2020. So the first lockdown yes - now, absolutely not. It's paid leave if you have it, unpaid leave, or - if your can't work your full hours - pay deductions.

eastegg · 06/02/2021 22:56

My first thought is how easy must your job be if you are confident you can look after a baby at the same time. Unthinkable in my job and I imagine in most people's. It must mean that your role is basically semi-redundant.

Either that or looking after a small baby is really easy so we don't really need all that maternity leave do we? And that is what really bothers me about these 'I'm managing childcare of tiny children while doing my demanding job' situations; hats off if you're forced into it and are somehow managing, but we shouldn't be inviting it, it's like saying that the childcare and the job are so easy you can do both just like that. A dangerous road to go down imo.

Yorkie127 · 06/02/2021 23:06

@Moondust001 It's within our policy which is deliberately flexible to accommodate individual needs and the needs of the business. I've seen both LA and NHS organisations take this type of pragmatic approach for the period of the pandemic. I agree that in this example temp part time hours is the way to go and I'd be on the phone to nurseries every week.

ChelleMum85 · 07/02/2021 00:46

I work from home for the DWP and I have 3 children at home.

Your Manager is being discriminatory in a situation which is unprecedented and breaking the law/bullying you.

It's not about being unfair, it's about contacting ACAS and your Union.

Lotsalotsagiggles · 07/02/2021 01:35

Can you use leave your cover the days your hubby is working?

Or even keeping her in touch days to try it out?

AStar88 · 07/02/2021 02:01

I'm really sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time. I went back to work in December after 1st DS and childcare has not been easy in these unprecedented times.

At our company (a global professional organisation) they have been very flexible about people's situations. Some people have had babies at home with them for months. If the nurseries are closed there is not much you can do.

You can request to be Furloughed for the days you can't work (it's not guaranteed they will accept, but if they are agreeing to reduce your hours to part time temporarily then I don't see why they wouldn't agree to furloughing the additional days).

You also have the right to request to change your hours. You don't have the right to have them changed, but they have to refuse on business grounds.

Thirdly speak to ACAS. They have a free helpline and can advise you on the best order of next steps.

If you work for a big company I suspect all of this will be easier, but know that there are always options.

Take care x

AStar88 · 07/02/2021 02:02

One last option - can you use accrued holiday from your maternity leave to buy you some time?

Twowilldo50 · 07/02/2021 10:01

I think childcare is a good reason for being furloughed, and is flexi furlough a thing still? Perhaps you could ask to be furloughed for the days you can’t work?

Dogsarehairy · 07/02/2021 10:26

@Twowilldo50

I think childcare is a good reason for being furloughed, and is flexi furlough a thing still? Perhaps you could ask to be furloughed for the days you can’t work?
Furlough costs the employer-NI, pension and accrued holiday.

No indications that it will carry on past April at the moment.

Iamthewombat · 07/02/2021 10:38

My first thought is how easy must your job be if you are confident you can look after a baby at the same time. Unthinkable in my job and I imagine in most people's. It must mean that your role is basically semi-redundant.

This.

Juxtaposed with this:

I work from home for the DWP and I have 3 children at home.

What some posters are missing, in their keenness to urge the OP to complain about discrimination and unfairness, is that public sector bodies don’t have shareholders and aren’t required to make a profit: all they do, pretty much, is spend and as an ex-senior civil servant and chartered accountant, I can tell you that the public sector really isn’t held to account as it should be.

It is telling that the posters boasting about their enlightened managers allowing them to care for babies and ‘work’ at the same time all appear to be employed by the public sector and are the most vocal in encouraging the OP to kick off and demand advantages for herself. Those that aren’t encouraging her to lie, of course.

Can you see that meanwhile, in the real world, businesses have to make money to survive and can’t carry the cost of economically inactive staff members? The work still needs to be done, suppliers still need to be paid, there’s a salary bill to meet each month, VAT liabilities have to be met.

The OP’s employer, which happens to be a local authority, has offered a reasonable compromise: part time working. The OP doesn’t want to take it because it doesn’t suit her, financially.

I say well done the OP’s line manager for behaving responsibly and not, like the line managers of some posters contributing to this thread, saying, “oh, it doesn’t matter if you are hardly doing any work, come back full time and look after the baby at home whilst nominally working”. Consider whether the people making this concession are hoping to benefit from it themselves in the future. That might be more important to them than exhibiting fiscal responsibility with other people’s money: yours and mine, in the form of tax revenues.

Iamthewombat · 07/02/2021 10:40

Also, if you are in the private sector, your employer is more likely to discuss concessions if your value to the business is high, but I can’t see any private business seeking to make a profit entertaining some of the piss taking described on this thread.

TitsOot4Xmas · 07/02/2021 10:41

@Twowilldo50

I think childcare is a good reason for being furloughed, and is flexi furlough a thing still? Perhaps you could ask to be furloughed for the days you can’t work?
Generally speaking, those in the public sector can’t be furloughed.
Iamthewombat · 07/02/2021 10:43

Another example of posters contributing what they think should be the case, rather than what is actually the case.

Someone thinks that childcare is a good reason for furlough. Thus every employer should allow it in every set of circumstances. Easy, eh?

TitsOot4Xmas · 07/02/2021 10:58

Have had to deal with several staff who think being asked to WFH during parts of the pandemic think they don’t need to do any work. One even put an out of office on. And the reaction when asked if their (non-keyworker) husbands could share the childcare. One thought it was okay if she “logged on for half an hour” a day during nap time for her full salary whilst her frontline colleagues ran themselves ragged.

She really didn’t like being told that that wasn’t acceptable, and she could either work her contracted hours flexibly, take leave (paid/unpaid) or reduce her hours but absolutely no way were tax payers coughing up for her to sit at home for months like that.

DillyDilly · 07/02/2021 11:09

Does your 9 mo and really sleep from 11pm to 11am with a two hour nap around lunchtime?? I’d so, that’s not going to last much longer.

And really, plonking her in front of the TV for an hour while you work isn’t great, she’s too young for that.

What’s your plan for the days your baby wakes as you’re about to start work, it will obviously take at least an hour to change/feed/dress/interact with her? What’s your plan for the days when she wants to be on your lap and is out of sorts?

Young babies and toddlers need a lot of attention, it would be different if she was school going age.

CassandraCalled · 07/02/2021 11:18

I’d be a little more cautious about checking your protected rights than asking AIBU - full of people wanting to vent spleen, often to be contrary, rather than give advice. For perspective, there’ve been loads of threads talking about how everyone needs to “get on with it” and juggle work and childcare by putting extra hours in, and there’s a good chance you’d get shouted down by a different group of people for suggesting you go part time because “everyone else manages to do it”. I wouldn’t change to a role that you may be stuck with when lockdown eases in a couple of months without careful research. Ask an expert - union rep, employment solicitor for advice, ask HR about flexi working. I have several friends on the opposite side of the coin to you at the moment who are being told they can’t be spared from their full time job, despite having young kids underfoot, and are expected to home school too. It’s worth mentioning that this is driving them rapidly to the point of nervous breakdown, so I wouldn’t recommend it. Remember, it seems like this is going on forever, but it’s temporary. You’re justified in expecting reasonable adjustments from your employer in these extraordinary times, they’re justified in expecting the work gets done. Whilst I’d really suggest you get some proper expect advice on your position, I’d also suggest other options may be open to you. For example, if you have a mortgage, look at a mortgage holiday and take the part time option, allowing you to enjoy your baby. Or negotiate with your boss that you have a trial period working full time and drop to part time if you’re not keeping up. If you get stuck doing the job no one else wants, come the stage when childcare opens up again, do you think you’ll be able to get your old post back? People all over the country are having to make allowances and compromises at the moment, and if an employer thinks they can just plough on as if it was business as usual, they ought to examine their conduct.

Peff68 · 07/02/2021 11:25

Wow I’m quite surprised at most people’s reactions, some are supportive and offering solutions but most are quite negative to you. Being first time mum is hard enough as it is!
It is definitely worth having a chat with your HR to see if there’s a more flexible solution for you before changing roles, but it’s great that you do have a solution should that not work out. Is there any chance your partners role could be done at weekends or evenings to free him up for childcare or family or friends that could help out? Best of luck with what you do.

RedskyBynight · 07/02/2021 11:32

I know a lot of people who work for a lot of different employers. Not a single one of them expects to be able to work a normal 8 hour day whilst caring for a child at the same time. Frankly, this is impossible to do without neglecting work or child.

The employers have put in place some or all of the following

  • Allow employee to work flexibly (so they work say 6-10 and then 4-8 whilst looking after the child in the middle
  • Grant some sort of special leave so employee works fewer hours than normal
  • require employee to take annual or unpaid leave so they work fewer hours than normal
-"accept" that employee just has to do their best and therefore works fewer hours. Anecdotally, this was more common in the first lockdown and is not so accepted this time. This lockdown people can use childcare bubbles and pre-school care is open, thereby fewer employees do have their children at home.

I don't think OP's manager has done anything wrong by insisting that she can't both work and look after a child. However, she might like to see if he would accept one of the above options instead.

TitsOot4Xmas · 07/02/2021 11:44

You’re justified in expecting reasonable adjustments from your employer in these extraordinary times, they’re justified in expecting the work gets done.

Reasonable adjustment is a legal term under the equality act, so you need to be careful about using that term here. It is not relevant.

Asthmasuffer · 07/02/2021 14:09

OP hope you are ok. What sector do you work in? I am WFH with a 2year old. We do not qualify for a placement as our nursery are not taking placements for any keyworkers or people who are working from home. Only people who have to attend a work place and you must provide a letter from your employer. My company/manager has been so compassionate and understanding. They are also trying to home school whilst working from which is a struggle. Your situation seems manageable given the current situation the world is in. I would be asked to be furloughed. I believe by law your entitled to ask for this. Good luck

DicklessWonder · 07/02/2021 14:29

@Asthmasuffer

OP hope you are ok. What sector do you work in? I am WFH with a 2year old. We do not qualify for a placement as our nursery are not taking placements for any keyworkers or people who are working from home. Only people who have to attend a work place and you must provide a letter from your employer. My company/manager has been so compassionate and understanding. They are also trying to home school whilst working from which is a struggle. Your situation seems manageable given the current situation the world is in. I would be asked to be furloughed. I believe by law your entitled to ask for this. Good luck
Read the thread. The OP is a social worker in Local Authority employment. Public sector employees can’t usually be furloughed.
Iamthewombat · 07/02/2021 15:21

I would be asked to be furloughed. I believe by law your entitled to ask for this

Yes, but this poster’s eloquently expressed beliefs trump actual facts, didn’t you know?

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee · 07/02/2021 15:27

By all means she’s entitled to ask to be furloughed her employer isn’t compelled to grant it

peasinmysoup · 07/02/2021 17:52

Whether she can do it is irrelevant to the fact that her employer cannot ask or demand she do anything with her baby.
Just as an employer can't ask if a woman plans to get pregnant.
It's discriminatory.
Everyone is working from home and juggling childcare right now.

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