Family row over lending money

[Useranon20]

I’ve name changed for this.

SIL wants to ‘borrow’ money...around £650, towards ‘household bills’.

We DO have the money, but do not want to lend it.

1. Because it certainly won’t be returned
2. We never see this sibling, we are not close
3. Like most of DH’s siblings they are regular cigarette smokers; weed smokers and drinkers and would have more money if they cut out that shit.

One issue is that MIL thinks we are mean and puts a guilt trip on DH, pretty unsuccessfully but it’s annoying.
DH and I both have good jobs and a comfortable lifestyle. The rest of DH’s family struggle. DH came from a poverty stricken background. However, we didn’t get what we have by giving away money.

Secondly, the other siblings (DH’s other brothers and sisters) have very little but still lend to their sister and each other, and they have expressed that they are pissed off that they always have to ‘lend their money’ but we never do ‘our fair share’ and to be honest, this really rubs me up the wrong way.

This is not the first time the family have asked us for money, the most we’ve been asked for is £2500; the least £20. Every time DH says no, no excuse, just no.

It’s starting to cause animosity and it all leaves a sour taste. What would you do?

@HowQuicklyTwoAndTwenty890

It will never get better either. I have an aunt who felt entitled to ask my mother for money all the time also. Funnily enough she and her DH were also smokers, drinkers and weed smokers. My aunt is now over 80 and a couple of Christmases ago went batshit at my mother for always being 'lucky' and never helping her out. My mother pointed out she had helped her out to the tune of thousands over the years, and had never got any thanks for it. The response was that my mother had mroe so SHOULD give my aunt some of it.

My mother was a nurse who worked all her life. So while comfortable was not exactly rolling in it.

So true. A friend of mine kept GIVING money to a niece that pleaded poverty but couldn’t be bothered to work herself. Over the years it added up to a nice car. You think she appreciated it? Nope. She doesn’t remember the 15k+ she got from my friend, but only the times my friend said no. And on top of it niece raised two now adult boys who think it’s normal not to say thanks when they get a gift and ask my friend for a couple of hundreds a time, while they haven’t earned a single euro in their lifetime.

Don’t start so you don’t have to stop. And yes, I’ve warned my friend from the very start, but she kept claiming “my family loves me”. And she was right, until she stopped paying... now they can barely bother to type a message on Facebook on her birthday.

Secondly, the other siblings (DH’s other brothers and sisters) have very little but still lend to their sister and each other, and they have expressed that they are pissed off that they always have to ‘lend their money’ but we never do ‘our fair share’ and to be honest, this really rubs me up the wrong way.

The answer to that is simple enough - they certainly don't always have to lend their money.

Cigster-in-law can do her fair share for a change, and pay for her own smoking.

Quote:
Cigster-in-law can do her fair share for a change, and pay for her own smoking

CIGSTER

😂

This is an ongoing issue and the repeated asking and the behaviour around it causes you and your DH stress and upset.

You therefore need to say no but also take steps to get it a stop to the asking.

In whatever words your DH is comfortable with, he should explain that he won’t be getting involved in lending money to anyone. It’s great that he says no but ideally he’d explain that he doesn’t want to be asked again.

The problem with making excuses is that it perpetuates this idea that if you can afford to (which I suspect they know you can) then you have an obligation to. Making excuses or telling lies feeds into the idea that you have an obligation to lend and have to explain yourself if you don’t.

As for what they spend their money on, don’t comment or get involved in a debate, just say no, won’t be lending, please don’t ask again.

As for the siblings talking about fair share. Boo that in the bud too. Simple response of, no one has any obligation to lend money, so there’s no such thing as a fair share. If others choose to, that’s for them to decide. You and DH don’t, that’s for you to decide.

If you’re approached again about lending and fair share, it’s a case of saving, I’ve already explained my position on this, don’t ask again. Or don’t suggest the fair share again.

I know it’s akward but do too is being continually approached.

@Mycatismadeofstringcheese

I’ve just looked up the price of cigarettes. £13.35 for 20 Silk Cut!

Blood hell. At 60 a day they could save £650 in 16 days!

Not that I'm justifying them.asking for money, but it's unlikely they're spending this much in cigarettes.

When I was a heavey smoker and skint (many years ago) I smoked roll ups, and would buy them cheap "under the counter" from shops that snuggled them in duty free. (Normal shops, you just had to know which ones you could ask for "under the counter" baccy).

On the rare occasions I bought "straights" it'd be a cheap brand, not Silk Cut.

People living on very low incomes are not paying full whack for cigarettes.

Can you bring up the fact that they owe you x amount from last time and then make an excuse that you’re struggling in this difficult time as well.

Ask them what bills they are struggling with. Offer to ring up the utility companies of their behalf to see if the company can offer them any help or support.

Don’t be guilt tripped into parting with your money if you don’t want to loan it out

If there's kids involved I would send a family meal box from Morrison's and offer to top up the electricity and gas as a gift this month (no pretence if paying back) and finally I would offer to help them pay for smoking cessation sessions.

I see the logic in this put it perpetuates the idea that they need a reason to say no. It’s fine to say no and they have in the past.

The only family members I’d lend money to would be my parents and my children. And at that, it would likely be a gift rather than a lend.

SIL is barely a relation to you. Absolutely not.

Don't give them anything!
Someone should explain to them that you treat yourself after all the bills have been paid and savings have been put aside (if you have any money left!).
If their priority is to pay for "their only luxury" instead of bills and savings they should not expect you to pick up the tab for their life choices! Weird...

Have these relatives ever offered to do anything for you to offset the 'loan' they are asking for, e.g. wash your windows or car, babysit, clean the house, DIY/gardening? Or do they just expect you to hand over the money, free and clear? I think I know the answer to that already.

Just keep saying "No" and you don't have to give a reason. If you do it once, it sets a precedent.

No, we are saving up for a round the world cruise when covid is over

Ah yes, the nuclear option ... actually I rather like it

Remembering that you're not close and there's little to lose, you could also just say "Get back to me when you've packed up the fags/weed/booze". Any response like "Well, YOU buy treats!!" can be met with "Well yes, but we can afford it"

Not particularly kind, admittedly, and normally I'd suggest being the bigger person, but they're not exactly being kind to you are they?

You don't have to give anyone money, whether you approve of their lifestyle choices or not.

No. If MIL is so bothered by it - let her lend it to them.

'We're so sorry, we could never contemplate loaning money while you smoke. It would feel as if we would be helping a much-loved family member along the path to ill-health. If SIL is at the stage where she is putting cigarettes before bills, she needs help, not enabling. I'm shocked you can be ok with this MIL'

why does everyone keep posting about lending (or not lending) money - it you know there is no likelihood of it being a repaid, it not a loan.
If OP were mad enough to give them money, it would be a gift.

As OP an partner seem to have strong resolve (and rightly so) it will remain as a frustrated CF request - or begging.

Just say no. And go very low contact with them all.

Maybe buy some things for the DCs of these family members, rather than give money. That way you look generous, can afford it, and the MIl has the answer, 'but we gave .... to'?

I'd be going no contact. Cheeky fuckers.

RootyT00t

StillCoughingandLaughing
It doesn't sound like you like these people very much, OP.

This is a classic Mumsnet response - lazy meaningless, and yet somehow judgemental at the same time.
But it doesn't.

The wee digs about spending money on fags etc isn't relevant here.

@RootyT00t - of course what they spend their money on is relevant. If they weren’t smoking 60 a day, plus spending money on other non-essentials like booze and fags, maybe Op would be more sympathetic to their plight.
As it is, why on earth would anyone lend them anything when they could actually save a decent whack by cutting out (or even down on) all of the above.

Is it a cultural thing? Why on earth would they think you are obliged to help?

@funnylittlefloozie

I never have spare money, so this is totally academic.... if I knew the household bills really needed paying, I would offer to pay the water or electric for them - just give me the account number and 24 hour payment line number, and I'll pay it. I'm not giving cash to weed smokers though.

But by taking the bill off them you're still freeing up money for their lifestyle choices.

As northsouth1 said earlier...

Don't give excuses as a reason. It gives them the opportunity to argue the case further. You might say 'I have a bill to pay', they'll come back with 'well, when the bill's paid lend(give) it to me then. etc etc.

Don't tell them you're saving as then they'll come back with, 'lend(give) me some of that then if you aren't spending it!!'

If they smoke, snort or drink then those vices are their priorities. not paying anyone back. They won't save so won't appreciate the people who do.

And as anyone knows, once they have you down as a mug once they won't let up.

Good on your OH. Good teamwork

yanbu
for an extraordinary event I would lend (or give) money to relatives. but notfor regular 'top ups'. especially not if you know in advance that it is not a one off and you will not be paid back.