Family row over lending money

[Useranon20]

I’ve name changed for this.

SIL wants to ‘borrow’ money...around £650, towards ‘household bills’.

We DO have the money, but do not want to lend it.

1. Because it certainly won’t be returned
2. We never see this sibling, we are not close
3. Like most of DH’s siblings they are regular cigarette smokers; weed smokers and drinkers and would have more money if they cut out that shit.

One issue is that MIL thinks we are mean and puts a guilt trip on DH, pretty unsuccessfully but it’s annoying.
DH and I both have good jobs and a comfortable lifestyle. The rest of DH’s family struggle. DH came from a poverty stricken background. However, we didn’t get what we have by giving away money.

Secondly, the other siblings (DH’s other brothers and sisters) have very little but still lend to their sister and each other, and they have expressed that they are pissed off that they always have to ‘lend their money’ but we never do ‘our fair share’ and to be honest, this really rubs me up the wrong way.

This is not the first time the family have asked us for money, the most we’ve been asked for is £2500; the least £20. Every time DH says no, no excuse, just no.

It’s starting to cause animosity and it all leaves a sour taste. What would you do?

The whole rationale is hilarious. "I, an adult, consistently spend all my money on luxuries and then rely on others to pay my essential bills. You have money and would see your flesh and blood starve? Even though it's completely my fault, I won't pay it back and will definitely result in many more requests? Disgusting" Where's the facepalm emoji?

Your DP seems to be handling it well though so probably just let him deal with the scroungers.

@Babysharkdoodoodood

Fags are a minimum of £10.00 a pack for cheapies. So 60/day is £900 a MONTH!

Add in the weed & booze and they're swimming in cash.

Maybe they roll their own?

Tobacco is cheap

The ‘our fair share’ comment would rile me up too. How entitled can you get? Sharing DNA with someone doesn't make them your responsibility, and these are people you don't even see.

^1. We don’t earn lots of money, but what we do is spend it wisely

1. We don’t earn our money to support siblings, parents etc who can’t be bothered to budget

3 you are happy to sit down with them and go through their budget to help find ways they can cut down on things to save, allow them to pay their price bills etc 4 if you know how much they smoke a day, then say you spend £30 per day on cigarettes, that’s £210 per week. If they gave up for three weeks they would have the money they need

And then just keep saying no^

^^ This. I know there are people who do not have enough coming in to cover the basics. But there's at least as many people who simply fail to prioritise the essentials over their own wants and then try to guilt trip more responsible people into giving them money because they have spent their own money on discretionary items without bothering to pay for essentials first.

It's always 'I'm too poor to buy food, pay the electric, have no money for bus fare to the doctors' and the point that if they even cut down on whatever vice they had by a little bit, they'd have more than enough money to cover the basics.

On the matter of smoking, I've known a few people give up with Champix without any bother, even those who have failed to quit with multiple other methods, so suggest they ask their doctor about that if they try the 'I can't give up the fags' line.

People like that will never stop asking for money because they spend all their own and then try and spend other people's too, so stay strong with saying no.

^Maybe they roll their own?

Tobacco is cheap^

It's not that cheap and if they had a cheap foreign supply, it's likely that's been cut off for the last year.

When DP smoked, not particularly heavily, we brought all we could back from the Canaries where it was a fiver a pack, but if he ran out and had to buy it in the shop here, it was about £15 for a packet that lasted less than a week and that was a few years ago. It would be hard to smoke even roll ups for less than £100 per person per month and that's for a not particularly heavy smoker.

For two heavy smokers it will cost a lot more and there's weed (and booze?) on top, so however cheaply they're doing it, you still have people who are choosing to set fire to their money in preference to paying their 'household bills'.

I just wonder what goes through people's minds living like this. I'd hate to rely on others. I know sometimes it can't be helped and people have poor paying jobs and bad luck but in cases like this if they're spending money on luxuries instead of essentials they're making bad choices. There really should be more done in schools to try to get through good money management.

Do not lend you are only enabling poor financial management and perpetuating it.

As others said, if there's animosity, tell a white lie, DH was an idiot and lost a load betting on a horse, you've just had a router of a car bill etc.

I sympathise OP. A friend comes from a family like this and they probably won't stop asking. My friends family have enough of a brass neck that in the past when he's said he hasn't had cash available they've badged him into taking out finance plans in his name saying they will make the payments (of course they've not got the credit rating to get it themselves) and of course never paid.

They won't ever believe you can't spare the money and will always be grumpy that you have more available than them and are not handing it over.

I used to feel bad for and inclined towards lending/being generous to in laws (cannabis smokers on benefits) until one conversation where they were telling me how much their weed costs and how many days it would last them: £80 for 3 days. Not including tobacco. Even if they can only afford that once a week, it's a lot more than what I spend on food for a week for myself, and certainly more than i have spare! (FWIW DH and I are both care workers so low wages)

No no and no again. Not even for a tenner.

I have lent money to family (parent) before, but always in the knowledge that they have supported me when I needed it, are completely open with me about where their money goes, and it was always amounts I could afford to give away.

They weren’t the sort to take the piss though, and they paid me back.

In your case, I’d tell them that the only thing that I’d pay for would be an enrolment in Dave Ramsey’s financial peace university.

The crocodile quote above is correct.

Don’t lend to family. I have bitter experience to the tune of 3.5k.

And I also advise against lying to them. They need to understand that this is a red line for you and that there will be no magic future time that you will suddenly become their own private bank.

Why the heck should they expect their weed and tobacco habits to be bankrolled by you and your husband?
I would not lend them any money unless as I was certain it would be paid back but clearly this won’t happen.
You are definitely not unreasonable OP

How do they know you have the money to lend?

"Stop trying to guilt trip me in to lending you money when you spend £60 a day to fund your habit"

No don’t do it! Try to stay strong however if you do end up ever lending them money put a signed agreement in place and a payment schedule. Just to cover your back if it all hits the fan

Never a borrower or lender be.

Tell them this on repeat.

They’re cheeky to ask. Wouldn’t dream of asking my sibling to borrow money

@Useranon20

I really don’t want to pay it though. I just think perhaps instead of 60 a day, they could be spending that money on their bills.

This.

Don't lend money.

In my experience it isn't given back, either.

Stay firm.

We have the same issue with my DSS - only ever gets in touch when he wants £ for rent when we know he's spending on drugs, doesn't work etc. DH has finally hardened his heart to him so I know how difficult it is to be in your position. It's really hard on DSSs grandparents who naively live in hope that this time he really is turning his life around.

DH gets a right slagging off on Facebook when he says No which makes it much easier to say no again the next time.

What a toxic lot, I wouldn't want to even speak to them let alone lend them money! They don't even seem to understand the word lend, it means you pay it back. They need to rephrase and say 'can you give me some money' because that's the truth of it.

Keep saying no.

There’s absolutely nothing stopping me boozing, smoking or taking drugs but I want to be able to pay my bills so I don’t do any of that.

Well done for sticking to your guns and not caving to the emotional blackmail. It's great that your husband is on the same page. As far as the other siblings go, it's their choice to take part in this money lending merry-go-round, and that's fine if it's a case of give and take. There's no such thing as your 'fair share' in your case it wouldn't be mutual support, you would only ever be expected to give.

@PurplePolarBears

I used to feel bad for and inclined towards lending/being generous to in laws (cannabis smokers on benefits) until one conversation where they were telling me how much their weed costs and how many days it would last them: £80 for 3 days. Not including tobacco. Even if they can only afford that once a week, it's a lot more than what I spend on food for a week for myself, and certainly more than i have spare! (FWIW DH and I are both care workers so low wages)

I am horrified at how expensive weed can be. It seems poorer people buy crappy £10 deals that end up being far more expensive than a Lord or Rock star would spend on his.

Tobacco costs a fortune, too. {Not smoked for 12 years though, so when I heard someone ask for tobacco in a supermarket ...along with bloody scratch cards...It was a shocker.

Scratch cards are the works of Satan, yet it is the very poor who buy them.

You are right OP.Don't give away your money cos thats what you would be doing never to see it again and can you imagine the uproar if you did and the day you so unreasonably dare ask for it back?!! They all sound entitled and they need to learn responsibility and a bit of dignity and self respect wouldnt go amiss either. Ignore and carry on as you are,it is not your problem they are ignorant selfish and useless.