Family row over lending money

[Useranon20]

I’ve name changed for this.

SIL wants to ‘borrow’ money...around £650, towards ‘household bills’.

We DO have the money, but do not want to lend it.

1. Because it certainly won’t be returned
2. We never see this sibling, we are not close
3. Like most of DH’s siblings they are regular cigarette smokers; weed smokers and drinkers and would have more money if they cut out that shit.

One issue is that MIL thinks we are mean and puts a guilt trip on DH, pretty unsuccessfully but it’s annoying.
DH and I both have good jobs and a comfortable lifestyle. The rest of DH’s family struggle. DH came from a poverty stricken background. However, we didn’t get what we have by giving away money.

Secondly, the other siblings (DH’s other brothers and sisters) have very little but still lend to their sister and each other, and they have expressed that they are pissed off that they always have to ‘lend their money’ but we never do ‘our fair share’ and to be honest, this really rubs me up the wrong way.

This is not the first time the family have asked us for money, the most we’ve been asked for is £2500; the least £20. Every time DH says no, no excuse, just no.

It’s starting to cause animosity and it all leaves a sour taste. What would you do?

No is always the answer with drinkers,smokers and druggys

I used to do a form of debt counselling with struggling people. Going through their budgets and working out changes that could help. It was smokers and, oddly, horse owners (vet bills etc) who seemed the most in need.

I would continue to say no, and indicate that the only help you will give is thorough budgeting advice, so would need all receipts and bank statements for 6 months (this may put her off asking). Every time she asks for cash, response is "no, and do you have those bank statements"

@RootyT00t
Of course their lifestyle is relevant. It sounds as though op would help them out if they were in genuine need and on the bones of their arse. As is, they’re spending thousands on unnecessary purchases. If they even cut down to 30 fags a day, they could clear the £650 in less than a month and a half.

If it’s roll ups, the tobacco is a lot less but the point still stands.

I would say no, and then very clearly tell her to stop asking because the answer will always be no and you're sick of being asked.

Don't worry about sounding blunt - she's obviously not bothered about putting you in an awkward situation so why should you care?

Also I wouldn't bother speaking to her about what she spends her money on (you referenced cigs, weed etc.) It makes no difference. It doesn't matter what she does with her money or why she is always broke. The point is, your money is yours, you aren't even close to her, and she has no right to keep asking you to give her money and then getting stroppy when you say no. End of story.

If you “lend” to fag-ash lil then you will then be expected to lend to all!

It rankles seeing hard-saved money pissed up the wall by others!

Just say no!

Hmm I'd be tempted to lend her something. Not £650 though! Something you can afford to not get back. Then when you don't get it back they won't be able to whine at you again.

I wouldn't lend them anything. Why they feel entitled to your money I don't know. You'd only be enabling their addictions.

@SavannahMiasMum

No is always the answer with drinkers,smokers and druggys

Exactly this. I don’t work my arse off to try to survive and save for the future to then give it away. Family or no family. Stick with the NO OP.

The wee digs about spending money on fags etc isn't relevant here."

Of course it is. Have you seen the price of cigarettes lately? If they have money for that, then they have money for their utility bills.

@StillCoughingandLaughing

It doesn't sound like you like these people very much, OP.

This is a classic Mumsnet response - lazy meaningless, and yet somehow judgemental at the same time.

Exactly. 👍

And Reading from OP’s posts I don’t see what there is to like about them.

I would say never pay - if you pay once for one family member there will be much more pressure from other family members and deservedly so - they've seen you give money to one why can't you give to the rest.

Never give money.

I wouldn’t give it as you will be hounded even worse since they know you have it and already gave in!!!

I used to work with a woman who would moan that she was underpaid and once said she couldn't afford any Christmas presents for her son....

She smoked a pack a day! £300 a month just on cigarettes. I have very little sympathy for people who prioritise drugs and cigarettes and then plead poverty for their actual essentials like bills and food.

@Ffsffsffsffsffs

60 fags a day... At a tenner a pack, that's almost £11,000 a year on 'the only luxury in their life'.

I don't know about anyone else, but 11 grand a year on top of my essential bills would get me a lot more than fags. That's several nice holidays, or a pretty decent car, or some severe home improvements. Every year. If you can't afford to pay your essential bills, you cut out the 'luxuries' until you can.

Think about this op - you say that you and dp have got to where you are through hard work and careful spending, and you've been able to buy a new home recently. What could you do with an extra £11k a year that they're spending on fags alone, never mind weed and booze.

If they can't see that, then you can't help them. Financially or otherwise, and nor should you.

Fuck me op, the average UK house price is £256k,they could buy a whole house with cash in 23 years of they carry on this way. And they're cadging off others to pay an essential bill? Nah.

I always calculate things like this too. I have a colleague who is always with her hand out asking for a tenner here and there to get through to pay day. It pisses me off because her DH smokes cigarettes, and does weed and she admitted to his weed habit alone costing £50 A DAY. It fucks me right off that she agonises over things like office lunches etc because she simply cannot afford it. I have bought her lunch more than a few times and she has to borrow off her mum because her DH is a total waste of space.

Anyway, DH and I calculated last night what our booze drinking costs costs between us about £2500 a year and we decided to quit. Not because we can't afford it, but because this is money that can be put to much better use!

As Fffsss says, that is £11 k a year post tax! Imagine if you suddenly got an £11 k a year post tax pay rise! you would consider yourself to be rolling in it! (Or I would anyway!).

Everything else aside- never lend money to people who have to means to pay it back.

Also, seeing people's calculations about how much her smoking costs, she's ridiculous. Of she can spend around £1000 a month on drink/drugs/cigarettes, then she can pay her own bloody bills. If not then she needs to cut out her 'luxury'.

Have no means**

Keep saying no.

Money is not the answer because they are living beyond their means. If you want to get into a debate I would say come back to me when you have stopped the weed and are non smokers, are keeping to a household budget, earning to your full potentials and have a business proposition that looks sensible (and when you have bothered to build a contact and relationship with us that isn't about asking for money) . But since they won't listen there's no point so just say no that doesn't work for us. To MIL just say it's not recommended to give money to drug users and family are not helping by doing so.

It will never get better either. I have an aunt who felt entitled to ask my mother for money all the time also. Funnily enough she and her DH were also smokers, drinkers and weed smokers. My aunt is now over 80 and a couple of Christmases ago went batshit at my mother for always being 'lucky' and never helping her out. My mother pointed out she had helped her out to the tune of thousands over the years, and had never got any thanks for it. The response was that my mother had mroe so SHOULD give my aunt some of it.

My mother was a nurse who worked all her life. So while comfortable was not exactly rolling in it.

Answer to SIL; it isn’t a loan when it’s not paid back.
Answer to other siblings; you do not ‘have to’ lend, (give) them money
If SIL needs money, join the real world and get a proper loan from a commercial company .

@CaptainSirTomMooreismyhero

I would tell SIL straight: We are not going to lend or give you any of our hard-earned money. Please do not ask again because we won't be changing our minds.

I would tell MIL straight:
We are not going to lend or give SIL money and we don't want to hear another word about it from you.

I would tell other siblings:
Butt out. We chose how to spend our money. You choose how to spend yours. End of discussion.

This.

Once you’ve given it once, they’ll keep asking.

None of the siblings ‘have to’ lend her money. By doing so, they are encouraging her and enabling her. Maybe they need to learn the word, ‘no’ also.

I'd just ignore the following texts asking for money if that's all they do and don't even ask how you are. When asked why you're ingoing them simply reply "we're fine thanks for asking!" They'll soon get the point.
Don't lend money, it'll be a never ending spiral.

If my SIL or my brother needed money to pay a bill & they asked for help we would lend them the money even if they’d maybe been careless with their money and could otherwise have paid it. However this is probably at least in part because it’s not something they’d habitually ask us to do. SIL we’ve helped out a couple of times. Once when she left ex husband and he wiped out their joint overdraft before the accounts got sorted out so she was left stuck with half the debt to repay we paid it and once more recently when she’d miscalculated and not taken enough out of a savings account with notice period to cover an annual bill. The first time she offered to pay us back but we insisted it was a gift and the second she paid us back a couple of months later without losing the decent interest on her savings. In your case I might initially offer to help with setting up a budget so it’s really clear to in laws where existing money goes. I wouldn’t comment on what they spend on I’d just as part of it explain that we classify our expenses into things we absolutely have to pay (council tax, utilities, rent/mortgage & budget for required food/clothing/hygiene, bike/car maintenance, insurance) vs everything else. They can then look at what budget they have after the essentials and think themselves about how to prioritise those things. If they are smoking 60 a day all the time then even with a cheap brand bought in packs of 100 and the odd duty free lot if anyone they know was travelling is going to come to about £8k a year. That’s a lot of money to just burn & I wonder if they really appreciate what they are spending.

Nope. You dont get to spend your money on luxuries when you cant afford essentials then expect someone else to pay for your essentials.

Exactly, a fact a lot of people forget. Bills first always, save what you can after that. If you are lucky enough to have more, spend on what you want. But not paying a bill because you want weed is a big no no. They got themselves into this mess, they can get out of it.

Of course the comments about cigarettes, weed are relevant. They're smoking away the money they could use for their bills. Bills first, anything else after. If you can't afford to pay your bills because of your smoking habits, then you quit smoking or at least cut the rate you smoke. You don't go begging a family member for handouts all the time. OP just keep saying no, it's your family money. You worked for it and you can spend it however you wish.

@HowQuicklyTwoAndTwenty890

It will never get better either. I have an aunt who felt entitled to ask my mother for money all the time also. Funnily enough she and her DH were also smokers, drinkers and weed smokers. My aunt is now over 80 and a couple of Christmases ago went batshit at my mother for always being 'lucky' and never helping her out. My mother pointed out she had helped her out to the tune of thousands over the years, and had never got any thanks for it. The response was that my mother had mroe so SHOULD give my aunt some of it.

My mother was a nurse who worked all her life. So while comfortable was not exactly rolling in it.

I think this is important to read.

You don’t get thanked for helping people like this. All your aunt remembered was that your mum should have helped her MORE but didn’t and was pissed off about it.