Family row over lending money

[Useranon20]

I’ve name changed for this.

SIL wants to ‘borrow’ money...around £650, towards ‘household bills’.

We DO have the money, but do not want to lend it.

1. Because it certainly won’t be returned
2. We never see this sibling, we are not close
3. Like most of DH’s siblings they are regular cigarette smokers; weed smokers and drinkers and would have more money if they cut out that shit.

One issue is that MIL thinks we are mean and puts a guilt trip on DH, pretty unsuccessfully but it’s annoying.
DH and I both have good jobs and a comfortable lifestyle. The rest of DH’s family struggle. DH came from a poverty stricken background. However, we didn’t get what we have by giving away money.

Secondly, the other siblings (DH’s other brothers and sisters) have very little but still lend to their sister and each other, and they have expressed that they are pissed off that they always have to ‘lend their money’ but we never do ‘our fair share’ and to be honest, this really rubs me up the wrong way.

This is not the first time the family have asked us for money, the most we’ve been asked for is £2500; the least £20. Every time DH says no, no excuse, just no.

It’s starting to cause animosity and it all leaves a sour taste. What would you do?

This is an absolute piss take. You are doing the right thing by refusing. What a cheek!

Did you post about this recently? I remember a very similar thread, almost exactly the same scenario. It got derailed by people falling over themselves to point out a vocabulary error.

I'd send them one of those £30 Morrisons food boxes to make a point but not cash.

No. I’ve been put in the same situation and it was upsetting but I don’t loan money.

The relatives who are annoyed that you don’t ‘do your fair share’ are actually annoyed at themselves - because they wish they had the guts to say no too. You are right to stand your ground.

It doesn't sound like you like these people very much, OP.

This is a classic Mumsnet response - lazy meaningless, and yet somehow judgemental at the same time.

@StillCoughingandLaughing

It doesn't sound like you like these people very much, OP.

This is a classic Mumsnet response - lazy meaningless, and yet somehow judgemental at the same time.

But it doesn't.

The wee digs about spending money on fags etc isn't relevant here.

How is it not relevant? OP’s in-laws say they can’t afford the bills. Yet they can afford fags. Less money spent on the latter means more money for the former. Seems pretty relevant to me.

I wouldn't. And if they stop speaking to you, that's a bonus.

@RootyT00t. Of course it’s relevant when they spend their money on cigarettes cannabis and alcohol and have none left for bills 🙄

@RootyT00t

In all honesty? On a normal day I’m pretty indifferent and don’t think too much about them...but when we get the text asking for money, it just riles me up. We don’t hear from them ever, unless it’s to ask for money. I’d be lying if I said that didn’t piss me off.

@Chicchicchicchiclana

No, it’s my first time posting about family. I haven’t seen the other thread, but it’s both reassuring and dismaying, that this is a more common issue than I thought. I’d be interested to see the other thread though!

Keep on saying no. If they had kids I would make sure they got s nice present for birthdays and Xmas but not cash as parents might take it off of them.

if I knew the household bills really needed paying, I would offer to pay the water or electric for them - just give me the account number and 24 hour payment line number, and I'll pay it. I'm not giving cash to weed smokers though.

The problem with that, though, is that you are giving cash to them. Unless they're willing to have their water or electricity cut off, they simply HAVE to pay it - no choice. If you pay the bill, you free up some of their money for them to spend on weed, cigarettes, any habits/luxuries that they can't really afford; ergo you are giving them cash.

When you're young kids and you and your sibling are each given an identical bag of sweets, and they wolf theirs in two minutes whilst you deliberately ration your own to make them last - and then they scream "Unfair - you need to share yours with me as you're privileged and I'm not" - it's irritating when you're the wise kid; but that's just what some kids do.

As adults - not even young adults but middle aged and older - and they're still pulling the same tricks; even if they originally had a bag of sweets five times the size of yours but still scoffed them in minutes - it's not something wise, fair or sustainable to keep on indulging.

The young sister was an entirely different scenario: her bag of sweets turned out to actually be wrapped pebbles, and she never even asked (let alone demanded) to have her 'rightful' share of somebody else's, but was very grateful indeed when offered. Her case was 100% worthy; the others' case (the weed smokers) is most certainly not.

Fags are a minimum of £10.00 a pack for cheapies. So 60/day is £900 a MONTH!

Add in the weed & booze and they're swimming in cash.

And just to add in, I gave up fags 5 years ago and I've now got over £6000 in savings.

As a PP stated (and is really quite obvious, anyway), I simply cannot get my head around how people who are addicted to cigarettes manage to feed their habit. Over £40 each, every single day - £1,200 a month, if you smoke 60? I don't know how even reasonably wealthy people can factor that into their budgets. I've no idea how much weed costs, but I'm guessing that's not cheap either - considering that normal, legal, everyday essential food supplies often aren't cheap.

And it's not just the cost, either: if you sleep for 8 hours a day, that means you're lighting up a fag almost every 15 minutes, from when you wake to when you sleep. You're not somebody who smokes as one part of living your life - you effectively live TO smoke and just have to slot everything else in around it wherever you can.

@RootyT00t of course it's sodding relevant if they are spending their bill money ON FAGS instead of, you know, paying their bills! What a ridiculous thing to say, when it's the entire crux of the issue!

Keep supporting your DH to keep saying no, they may eventually grow up when everyone stops bailing them out. Not before time.

@Chicchicchicchiclana I thought that too at first, but this OP's DH isn't a wet lettuce like the other thread!

Don't do it. All your reasons are right ones. Every time you are asked, just say No. "I'm afraid we can't, it's just not something we can do, so sorry no".
"I've told you before, the answer is no, please stop asking". Repeat, repeat, repeat.
And if they don't stop, don't be in touch so often, ignore calls and if they moan, tell them you don't want to be in touch if they can't stop asking for money.

It is possible to borrow from relatives if you make the arrangement business like and stick to it as agreed,

When I moved into my first flat many years ago I asked my grandmother to lend me money to buy furniture. I went to her with a list showing the approximate cost of each item (as I estimated it) plus how much I expected to pay her back each month and how long it would take. First of all she said she would like to give me the money but I refused, and told her that would make me feel uncomfortable. I would prefer to regard it as a loan. She immediately wrote me a check.

I went shopping for furniture with my grandmother on several occasions and I know it gave her pleasure to come with me, even though our tastes were obviously very different. I had never furnished a home before and appreciated her advice.

When I had paid her back half she refused to accept any more and told me she would be offended if I tried to give her any or sneaked it into her bank account, One did not argue with my grandmother. It was enough for her that I had kept to the arrangement. I never needed to borrow from her again but always felt that I would have been free to ask.

No is a complete sentence. Don't make excuses or apologise, they know it's cheeky.

It's more helpful to direct people towards StepChange, Christians Against Poverty or one of the organisations like Benefits and Work (if relevant) if this is a repeated pattern.

Here's a suggestion for MIL - she could grow the weed for them, save them some money buying it, and sell the rest to fund the bills Win win aside from the illegality

Simply carry on saying no, and ignore the catty comments and complaints. Poor you this would really irritate me.

60 fags a day... At a tenner a pack, that's almost £11,000 a year on 'the only luxury in their life'.

I don't know about anyone else, but 11 grand a year on top of my essential bills would get me a lot more than fags. That's several nice holidays, or a pretty decent car, or some severe home improvements. Every year. If you can't afford to pay your essential bills, you cut out the 'luxuries' until you can.

Think about this op - you say that you and dp have got to where you are through hard work and careful spending, and you've been able to buy a new home recently. What could you do with an extra £11k a year that they're spending on fags alone, never mind weed and booze.

If they can't see that, then you can't help them. Financially or otherwise, and nor should you.

Fuck me op, the average UK house price is £256k,they could buy a whole house with cash in 23 years of they carry on this way. And they're cadging off others to pay an essential bill? Nah.

@RootyT00t "The wee digs about spending money on fags etc isn't relevant here."

They are very relevant. If the OPs family was asking for money because of reasons such as being unable to work due to being off sick with no sick pay or a marriage breakup where they'd been left with nothing then I'm sure she wouldn't mind helping out. But the fact that they spend all their money on fags and booze then expect others to pay for their essentials is what's irritating to the OP. So the mentioning of spending their money on fags is 100% relevant.