The Incel Movement (TW)

[pissofficiallyboiled]

NC. Wasn't sure if this was right board (was debating putting it on Feminism) but hopefully this is fine.

Has anyone heard about this Incel movement? I had heard the odd thing about it, but I've been reading a forum on another site - don't want to link it or I might get the post deleted - and the things that have been said have been fucking abysmal.

(Trigger warning here) An example being: "Females only have one worth and it's making babies. If a foid [female humanoid, used to indicate that women are subhuman] can't give birth, she's nothing more than a fleshlight".

For anyone who wants a bit of a TL;DR, Incels, a portmanteau of "involuntary celibates", are members of an online subculture who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one.

Not read many incel-specific threads on here, but to be honest it's really boiled my piss. Hope I've done the right things with the trigger warnings, wanted to start a conversation around this but hoping not to upset anyone!

Yes, it used to be legal to rape your spouse under Laws of Coverture, which meant that once a woman married, she relinquished all human rights and became the property of her husband.

There are a few really interesting podcasts about incels - I think Red Handed did one last year, worth a listen.

But yes, genuinely frightening how many young men are being sucked into this. I think one potential issue is that many people's initial reaction is to take the piss. The overwhelming image we get when we first hear about incels is of a socially awkward sadsack, typing angry rants from his parents' spare room. By making incels the object of mockery (which, tbf, is understandable. "Involuntary celibate"? Jesus.), we underplay how sinister and dangerous their ideology is.

It's something I wish I had never heard of. Now I move around public spaces or at work and wonder how many of the men around me violently believe that my sole purpose is to provide sex and babies. It's depressing.

@gannett

I don't think people quite realise how easy it is for young men to be radicalised in this way online. Not always the full-blown rabid misogynistic stuff immediately but there are so many gateways to that via common sexist stereotypes that can really suck insecure teenage boys/20something men in by playing on the fact that they really want to know how to get girls, and have no idea how to or any success.

This rhetoric is really common on bodybuilding and sports forums.

Absolutely, often runs parallel to the alt-right pipeline. Seems to begin by watching you tubers such as Pewdiepie, leafyishere and Keemstar, then are gradually recommended more and more right wing and misogynist content, like Ben Shapiro and "feminist gets wrecked" compilations, until they are attracted by subreddits that reinforce these views, and most radically 4chan.

It's terrifying and I recommend those with teenaged boys check in with what sort of content creators they're watching online.

I would guess there there is a higher percentage of violent and mysoginistic men amongst those who have partners than those without.

That used to fall under 'marriage', did it not? Where legally a husband couldn't rape his wife as she had 'duties'?

Yup. And it was legal in the UK until 1991/1992.

@Akire

Just to pick up the Disabled people and sex rights post. Everyone has a human right to have sex- this means that you cannot prevent people in mutually respectful relationships having sex.

Sadly if you have a disability this has often meant other people have decided that it’s not for you. If you are a fit young 30 year old in a care home but need help to get in and out of bed. Why should you never be able have sex with your Gf because it’s against the rules? That is why these rights are in law.

What legislation is out there that says sex is a human right?

It's one thing having a willing and able girlfriend, it's another having no one and thinking a vagina with a human attached should walk along and minute and act as a wank sock

This is really worrying. I once stumbled across a terrible website called Meninist which modelled itself in Wikipedia but it was basically a billion articles about how women are stupid whores who deserve everything they get. One article was along the lines of 'lots of women have rape fantasies, but then when they actually get raped they go complaining to the police and ruin the man's life. You just can't win!'

Sickening.

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows there was a recent judgement where it was said that sex was a human right.(2019)

English judge says man having sex with wife is 'fundamental human right'
www.theguardian.com/law/2019/apr/03/english-judge-says-man-having-sex-with-wife-is-fundamental-human-right

It's terrifying and I recommend those with teenaged boys check in with what sort of content creators they're watching online.

Absolutely, it's another part of toxic masculinity where we need to help keep our children from being slowly indoctrinated into it.

Teenage boys are likely to be getting info from the internet and a search like "why cant I get a girl" can easily take you to incel sites that propagate bullshit psychobabble like the ladder theory.

PP is right. The algorithms on sites such as YouTube push people down niche roads so a boy can start off looking at Pewdiepie and the recommends side bar will suggest more of the same which could be increasingly more alt-right, then the comments underneath will suggest other things like subreddits.

Its basically a frog boiling situation. It’s radicalisation. Look over your kids shoulder to see what they are watching.

The weird thig about people like Elliot Rogers and similar, is that they are not "ugly". You look at some of these guys and think, you know what, there is nothing about you that would be off-putting to a nice girl. I personally dated much more aesthetically ugly men. It's what's inside that puts women off!
I can see how it starts, very easily actually. Haven't we all come across men who say things like "all women want bastards" or "Women are only interested in men with money". I had an ex like that once. He complained that he couldn't get women to go out with him because they want a man with money. I was like, no love, they want a man with a job. And who showers occasionally. These are the same men that think women live high on the hog off child support...
On the whole, they probably did start off as nice guys. But you take a human who has been trained from birth by society that he is entitled to the good things in life and they can't handle it when life doesn't always work out like like. There are LOTS of involuntarily celibate women, the difference is that instead of plotting how to kill men they get a cat.

Teenage boys are likely to be getting info from the internet and a search like "why cant I get a girl" can easily take you to incel sites that propagate bullshit psychobabble like the ladder theory.
So true. They also see a lot of shit about feminists. My own teen told me that lots of feminists post on tik tok or whatever about how they want all men dead..I pointed out that anyone can post anything on the internet. You would think this generation would know what a troll is, but they don't seem to recognise it.

Elliot Rodgers was a good looking boy from a privileged background. Check out his video:

www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000002900707/youtube-video-retribution.html

I had heard if this Incel thing, but didn't know how crazy it was, would someone really want to identify as one of these ppl? Why not work on yourself?

Also what is the link to trans? do these ppl pretend to be trans for the "Lols"?

OMG just saw that Elliott Rodger video, seems totally cracked. I had that pseudo intellectual tone such people take, like what they are doing is somehow based on reality.

Laura Bates was on Woman's Hour a few weeks ago talking about this - don't know if it's still available to listen to

I googled it and found it.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000mhwz

The whole movement is absolutely chilling.

Elliot Rogers was a very messed up guy (as well as a domestic terrorist). He has a lot of self hatred and thought being half Asian stopped him from getting the hot girls he felt he was entitled to as a rich guy.

Apparently he couldn’t see that hot girls won’t just fall at your feet just because you’re rich if you’re an arrogant douche.

RandomLondoner
I understand exactly what amnesty mean
Amnesty have gone the same way as the NSPCC with misogynistic policies

I could be wrong but the modern twist is that incels and GC feminists are now strange bedfellows (excuse the pun). There's an established crossover of incels and alt right, and there is supposedly crossover with GC and alt right. All are anti-woke and in favour of traditional (white American) values.

That, Previous Poster, is a crock of horseshit.

@Tellmetruth4

Elliot Rogers was a very messed up guy (as well as a domestic terrorist). He has a lot of self hatred and thought being half Asian stopped him from getting the hot girls he felt he was entitled to as a rich guy.

Apparently he couldn’t see that hot girls won’t just fall at your feet just because you’re rich if you’re an arrogant douche.

He went further than that and tried to throw some off a balcony at a party because he couldn't pull.

Also what is the link to trans? do these ppl pretend to be trans for the "Lols"?

This shouldn't descend into a trans debate. Most of the time the correlation is between people who want society to adhere to gender stereotypes (no matter how damaging they are), which both incels and TRAs fight for but under different agendas vs those who are fighting against such a society (the gender critical).

There is undeniably a small minority of incel-type men who are using being trans (including non-binary, gender fluid) to attack women. Especially lesbians, many of whom are now being called bigots for not considering a relationship/dating someone who says they're a gay woman and therefore are, despite very clearly still being male in every aspect. Not that lesbians should be called bigots for not considering any ex-male person at all, but in no way the debate here.

There is a VERY clear correlation between the worst of the TRA twitter types (as in the ones documented on terfisaslur.com) and the incel movement. As usual what the left accuses the right of being - incels - has actually made its way properly into society on the left already, as in the vicious tra-types from that link.

@Blakes77

Teenage boys are likely to be getting info from the internet and a search like "why cant I get a girl" can easily take you to incel sites that propagate bullshit psychobabble like the ladder theory. So true. They also see a lot of shit about feminists. My own teen told me that lots of feminists post on tik tok or whatever about how they want all men dead..I pointed out that anyone can post anything on the internet. You would think this generation would know what a troll is, but they don't seem to recognise it.

Yes! My DD17 was telling me that there was a joke where people would post "Anyways... ban men" under videos of boys being misogynistic, and in retaliation, said young misogynistic boys started commenting "Anyways... rape women" under posts about feminism.

Absolutely disgusting to see such young teenagers being radicalised to the point where they think making rape comments are acceptable. She says TikTok has a very specific breed of (young) incel-types who make rape jokes, discredit survivors and will make their profile pictures into phots of girls' leaked nudes.

I'd check in with your teen about who they identify with online, as apparently (according to DD) they tend to call themselves "the boys". They are always sexist and often right wing, frequently ridicule/degrade women by calling them dishwashers etc. Lots of specifically anti-feminist abuse as well. Disturbing to hear it is so prevalent amongst the younger generations.

That Laura Bates thing on Women’s Hour was chilling. Many boys are in danger. There are people determined to turn them into terrorists.

I studied all this then quickly changed my focus. It was too depressing and it took me down a dangerous rabbit hole. Laura Bates book, ‘Men Who Hate Women’ really opened my eyes. I won’t mention names as I don’t want to give them publicity but there are ‘Honey Badgers’ (female MRA’s) working in academia and trying to get PHD’s by writing papers that claim women are more violent in the home than men, that feminists are liars, that women routinely beat their kids and prevent all these poor men accessing their children. Some research is based on little more than surveys of men. Anyone who has worked in a family court will be familiar with the differences in what is often claimed and what the judge finds once evidence is presented. These women troll Refuge, asking them to centre men.

MRA’s go on many social media platforms, attend conferences and post videos unchallenged. The sexism in academia means research that favours men is less scrutinised and papers that make such claims are more likely to be published. As soon as I began to talk about female issues I had to hide my identity due to rape and death threats.

These groups all have different names but they all come from the same right wing / hate arena and they are propped up at every level of society.