The Incel Movement (TW)

[pissofficiallyboiled]

NC. Wasn't sure if this was right board (was debating putting it on Feminism) but hopefully this is fine.

Has anyone heard about this Incel movement? I had heard the odd thing about it, but I've been reading a forum on another site - don't want to link it or I might get the post deleted - and the things that have been said have been fucking abysmal.

(Trigger warning here) An example being: "Females only have one worth and it's making babies. If a foid [female humanoid, used to indicate that women are subhuman] can't give birth, she's nothing more than a fleshlight".

For anyone who wants a bit of a TL;DR, Incels, a portmanteau of "involuntary celibates", are members of an online subculture who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one.

Not read many incel-specific threads on here, but to be honest it's really boiled my piss. Hope I've done the right things with the trigger warnings, wanted to start a conversation around this but hoping not to upset anyone!

Laura Bates was on Woman's Hour a few weeks ago talking about this - don't know if it's still available to listen to . I was doing the ironing at the time and actually burned a shirt because I was listening so open mouthed. I find it terrifying that this shite is spreading among teenage boys. Poor girls who come up against this crap.

See also: MGTOW (Men Going their Own Way) movement where men claim they're no longer gonna pay women any attention because they're fed up. Great in theory - in practice they're essentially incels who are dressing it up as something different.

On a Facebook group once on a post about something to do with incels, some American guy came on to explain why he is part of the MGTOW movement. He was essentially saying women are failures at life because we no longer want to be subservient brood mares and we will regret it when we are 40 and childless so he doesn't want to be part of that downfall. I commented saying "If you're so hell bent on going your own way, can you just go please? Because women won't even notice". He messaged me threatening to rape me.

Unfortunately there seem to be a few of these at DDs school
Hopefully they will grow up one day

@BrumBoo

From what I've seen it's a very small number of men but their viewpoint is amplified massively in the especially toxic way the internet has.

Unfortunately the community is quickly growing, and there is a small crossover with another.... rather untouchable group in society. Hence why it's becoming more difficult to point out their evident and most obvious misogynistic behaviour.

Yes, the untouchables are all about suppressing women's voices and maintaining the social order of females being subordinate to males. Us women are getting far too big for our boots! As the saying goes... *To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"

There’s a lot of crossover with these groups and alt-right (aka far right) groups. They lure men in via Reddit, Facebook, online gaming etc. It’s a push back against the advancement of women and minorities. They want a return to a time in America when a young white man was always top dog. No matter your education levels or social standing you were pretty much guaranteed a wife and a job, with no competition from women or minorities. It was their rage we saw on Capitol Hill in January.

Parents need to have oversight of what their kids are viewing and who they’re talking to online especially during gaming. There are groups trying to radicalise them and turn them into terrorists.

Yes, I'm aware of it and in fact looked it up so I could be aware of the traits identified in the Incel movement. Theres a lot of negging about as well...

Its one of the reasons that I think sex-based discriminatory conduct should be made an aggravated offence, in the way in which all other categories of discrimination have been made into aggravated offences in recent years.

Why on earth is it permitted to make derogatory remarks or threats to women (or men) on the basis of their sex, when it would be treated as a criminal offence were it made on the basis of skin colour or ethnicity?

To be fair, the UK is looking into criminalising such behaviour and is completing research into the issue currently. Lets hope its not watered down.

I think the online radicalisation of young white men might lead to the far right, but often starts with plain old misogyny. And will continue to do so as long as we do not teach our children to be explicitly feminist. If they do not know how to counter these veiws then they may be sucked in when they encounter them online.

Yes @Tellmetruth4 I think it is exactly these attitudes that led to trump and the capitol attack.

I am misquoting but I think it is- When you are used to privilege then equality feels like oppression.

This guy was sentenced last month in Spain on terror charges. He identified strongly with this movement.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-55317874

Utterly terrifying.

Spain? Scotland.

I fell down the incel rabbit hole a few years ago when that boy live-streamed himself killing a girl.

It’s genuinely baffling. I can’t get my head around the fact that they believe 100% the shite they spew.

To dismiss them is folly, I think. They’re dangerous and so easily radicalised.

Elliott Rodger is apparently hailed as a hero by these groups and the Canada shooting was directly referenced to have been inspired by him.

It is not out of place to say this subculture is akin to terrorism. It's extremely dangerous.

Germaine Greer got it in one. 'Women have very little idea how much men hate them'.

I think its so dangerous because its insidious and all the small micro-aggressions, the everyday sexism, and the casual misogyny create the sort of society that permits these extremist views to grow.

@Pukkatea

What terrifies me is that I had a friend who was the sweetest man until he was radicalised by these groups. Just a normal, somewhat unlucky in love guy who spent too much time on the Internet and now he's a full on misogynist incel.

That's awful. Can you say any more about how he changed? Do you think he was particularly susceptible to an ideology? Did you try and reason with him? (Without being outing, obviously)

Elliott Rodger is apparently hailed as a hero by these groups and the Canada shooting was directly referenced to have been inspired by him.

So was the one in Edinburgh apparently according to that article- thank you Raspberry for the link. Seems Rodger has gone down as a martyr in the Incel community.

History tells us that we shouldn’t waste time trying seek to understand their ‘concerns’ or pussy foot around them. They need to be stamped on hard and threats online must be prosecuted. I don’t want to see opinion pieces with ‘balanced’ debates. There are no ‘both sides’. Kill it off so that any others on the periphery and at risk of being sucked fully in understand how serious this really is snd think on. Make them know the people involved are crazy, strange and criminal and should be avoided not befriended.

The media doesn’t help.

How many times have we read about a school shooting involving a white male teen that references a girlfriend breaking up with him, or a girl rebuffing his advances?

Even the “bullied by popular kids” narrative.

It all serves to blame women and girls. Allows them to see themselves as victims.

Just to pick up the Disabled people and sex rights post. Everyone has a human right to have sex- this means that you cannot prevent people in mutually respectful relationships having sex.

Sadly if you have a disability this has often meant other people have decided that it’s not for you. If you are a fit young 30 year old in a care home but need help to get in and out of bed. Why should you never be able have sex with your Gf because it’s against the rules? That is why these rights are in law.

Gender critical groups have been banned on Reddit, as apparently have specific groups dedicated to women's gynaecological health.

But groups like these are allowed to thrive.

Tells us much about what women are up against socially. Women made a little progress throughout the last century. This is the response.

@BrumBoo

I think maybe it's a bit reductive and lazy to use a term like incels though. People behave badly everywhere, not necessarily down to their inability to find a partner.

But incels are a specific subgroup who's views are stemmed from the fact that they believe they are owed sex from women but don't get it. It begins small with girl/woman rejecting them, and snowballs into a dangerous ideology. Add in the internet and you have a very dangerous subculture where men convince each other that women should know their place, which is to be nothing more than breeding/fucking machines. It encourages other negative social traits, often mixed in with far-right ideology.

It needs to be recognised for what it is, not pretend that 'well there are many bad people out there'. The sooner young men realise they're not entitled to any woman, or sex, the healthier-minded adults they hopefully will become.

This hits the nail on the head

They are not involuntarily celibate, they are disgusting misogynists who no woman should ever touch

And their disgusting misogyny is probably the main reason they're so unattractive to women.

I am misquoting but I think it is- When you are used to privilege then equality feels like oppression.

Yes to this. I can't remember where I saw it or who said but a panelist on some show was asked about why women keep "banging on" about womens rights and womens equality and should these rights/equality be at the expense of mens rights/equality. The panelist answered that no one, literally no one, is attempting to remove the rights of men but that womens rights are constantly under threat and are constantly politicised and/or moralised (e.g., reproductive rights) and this is why women keep "banging on" about it because if we don't, the rights that we have fought for will be taken away.

I think we do need to talk about them, if only so those of us with boys know what to look out for. They seem to specifically target teenagers - I know speaking to DH about it he says he finds it scary because he can see how (if it'd been a thing in his teens) he could have been drawn in. We've both made a decision to talk frankly to DS about subjects like this as he grows up, in the hope we can give him a level of awareness and immunity to it.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Gender critical groups have been banned on Reddit, as apparently have specific groups dedicated to women's gynaecological health.

But groups like these are allowed to thrive.

Tells us much about what women are up against socially. Women made a little progress throughout the last century. This is the response.

They banned the incel groups on Reddit, long before they banned Gender Critical. The only one left (that I'm aware of) r/incelswithouthate. The reason it gets to persist is self-explanatory.

I don't understand why Reddit doesn't delete their forums?