Who should pay?

[Fudgewhizz]

Scenario: Sibling A lent Sibling B a car seat (a good one) to help them out when they had a baby, as money was tight. It was made clear that they would need it back when they had another child.

Sibling A had another child and asked for car seat back, giving several months' notice (obviously). Sibling B had been using seat for 18 months by this point. Covid hit, car seat couldn't be returned in person so needed to be couriered.

It took Sibling B another six months to get round to sending the seat, citing not having found a replacement seat / big enough box to send in / too expensive to send / too busy. Finally got round to sending it (had had it two years). In the meantime, Sibling A has been using car seat that is about to expire (apparently they have a shelf life, after which time the plastic degrades) and will soon be outgrown.

Car seat arrived filthy, with part of the harness worn away due to incorrect usage (twisted belt causing friction in the wrong place so badly fraying), and inadequately packed. Has clearly been chucked around by couriers - standard, and should have been packed better as this is to be expected. Had no padding round it and had obviously been rattling round in the box. Dirt and potentially harness could have been resolved (if harnesses available as a spare part), seat being thrown around cannot as there's no telling what unseen damage has been done (which is why they advise to replace seat if it's been in even a minor accident).

Sibling B is refusing to contribute at all to cost of new seat, citing money issues and that it's not their responsibility at all, and they've already spent money sending it back. Sibling A also has money issues and can't really afford to replace a seat that they were counting on using and would have been able to had it been packed properly (or if they'd not lent it in the first place - lesson learned there).

I mean, it's obvious which sibling I am, but who is right? Who should have paid for sending it back, and should sibling B offer to contribute to a new seat? Wear and tear and dirt fair enough, seat unusable I think not so much.

Sisters. I'd let this go and not loan another seat out.

I think sibling A sounds a little precious. I would expect wear and tear after two years and from the description I'm not convinced the seat is unusable.

Even if it was, considering this is my sister, I would have just let it go and moved on.

I think you shouldn't have let her borrow it if you were expecting it back in perfect condition. It's an item which is bound to have lots of wear and tear. And then there's the safety issues you mention. I have no idea about those but if it is an issue it's even more reason not have lent it out in the first place.

I know you were trying to help but I think you're unreasonable.

@rawalpindithelabrador Ha, definitely never lending anything again! Brother actually. I don't have the money to buy a new seat - not fund the whole thing anyway. Believe me, if I did I'd have told them just to keep it!

I wouldn’t expect a car seat that had been used daily to come back in great condition. I think lending baby things is fine but I also think a car seat is probably the one thing I wouldn’t loan out if I knew I would be wanting it back.

I wouldn’t lend a car seat for 2 years to be honest, I’d either give it to someone or store it.

A car seat isn't really something I'd have lent. Plus after two years it's clear it going to get wrecked.

Definitely wasn't expecting no wear and tear - that would be totally unreasonable. I was expecting to be able to use it again though, and I would have been if he'd wrapped the stupid thing up properly instead of just chucking it in a half-broken box. The dirt I can cope with, the harness might be replaceable, the ripped bits I can sew up, but I cannot in all conscience put my child in a seat that's been kicked around by couriers with no protection.

@AnnaSW1 I wouldn't now... I was trying to be nice and help them out as they were stressed. It's less the using it that's caused the damage, it's the not sending it properly packed that's done it.

Half each.

Your sibling sounds a bit of a dick, though.

I’m not convinced I would ever want to use a car seat somebody else has had in their car for a couple of years because of the possibility of a mild prang or general wear and tear. I definitely wouldn’t be keen on using it after it being couriered as the odds of the packer doing it securely enough are quite low.

However, you are in the right (which you know) but I think you just have to accept it and buy a new seat now. It’s annoying though.

In a ideal world you would both contribute to a new seat

However, in real life...

@sapnupuas I'd be happy with half. Hell I'd be happy with an apology at this point.... he's being really quite nasty about it :(

Sending it back filthy is awful, but I'd expect some dirt.

After 18mths though, I'd have said to sibling B, look, keep the seat and sell it if you want, save the courier fees and hastle (which I assume were significant) just give me £xxx for it instead.

@Eleoura I did offer that. Was turned down.

A is being ridiculous. You don’t lend something to be used and then get annoyed because the person used it and wore it out. What if B had a car accident so the seat had to be scrapped and A couldn’t have it back? A must have known that was a possibility? There was never any guarantee of A getting a consumable item like a car seat back.

It would have been better to let them keep it and ask if they can help pay for a car seat for you. Like half or something. Then they’ve had a car seat for half the usual price, and you’ve had help buying one. The postage cost could have been put toward it for a start

I would be very cautious about using a second hand car seat.

I definitely wouldn’t lend out a car seat I wanted back. Presumably when the seat was lent the need for it back was hypothetical rather than planned in the diary abs it was treated as such.

Yes he should have sent it back better. But equally I wouldn’t asked for a car seat via a courier due to transporting risk.

I suspect your brother is thinking bloody hell she went on and on about it, I sent it, she is complaining again and now wants me to buy a new one, nothing I do is good enough and she is never satisfied.

It would be nice if he contributes but clearly he isn’t going to. I would either take covers off and carefully examine foam pieces (they often unscrew so you can see all sides) and outside frame and see if you can get comfortable it is ok or just accept you need a new one.

I cant believe people are saying A, when B is clearly at fault. Not for the dirt or wear and tear (but I would have expected care to be taken with it) but for dicking around for 6 months when the request had been made to get it back and then not sending it properly. B sounds really entitled, and I hope A will not lend anything again.

I think the lesson here is don't expect anything back. You now know for future reference not to do it again. At the end of the day the seat is an object that is replaceable but the bond between siblings is not. You've done a nice deed and accept it as that

@Glenchase see above - not the usage that's the main issue, it's the lack of being bothered to send it safely that I'm cross about. (Though when we gave it to them it had had two years' use and was still pretty much immaculate...) As I've said several times, if it had been wrapped properly we'd still have been able to use it. If it was in a crash it would have been replaced by insurance, and anyway, that sort of thing can't be helped so wouldn't have been their fault. If the situation were reversed I'd have washed the covers, mentioned any damage due to wear and tear so that they were prepared, thanked them for lending it, wrapped it in several layers of bubble wrap and put it in a box with enough padding that it wouldn't move - which would be the normal and considerate thing to do, no?

@HerRoyalNotness Again, as I mentioned above, that was offered but refused.

B should pay

I wouldn’t have lent it though. None of my siblings look after anything

B shouldn't have to buy a brand new car seat when the one they borrowed was second hand anyway. Also A sounds like the kind of person to only accept the most expensive, RF until the child is practically ready for secondary school type of seat and most people just can't afford that. Especially if it isn't for their own child.

@GreenSlide nice set of assumptions you've made there! Actually, it was a seat from one of the cheaper ranges - a good one, but certainly not the most expensive by a long shot - and I wouldn't expect them to pay the lot. Also not going to apologise for wanting my child to RF (for which you can buy birth to age 4 seats for £70 anyway).