Who should pay?

[Fudgewhizz]

Scenario: Sibling A lent Sibling B a car seat (a good one) to help them out when they had a baby, as money was tight. It was made clear that they would need it back when they had another child.

Sibling A had another child and asked for car seat back, giving several months' notice (obviously). Sibling B had been using seat for 18 months by this point. Covid hit, car seat couldn't be returned in person so needed to be couriered.

It took Sibling B another six months to get round to sending the seat, citing not having found a replacement seat / big enough box to send in / too expensive to send / too busy. Finally got round to sending it (had had it two years). In the meantime, Sibling A has been using car seat that is about to expire (apparently they have a shelf life, after which time the plastic degrades) and will soon be outgrown.

Car seat arrived filthy, with part of the harness worn away due to incorrect usage (twisted belt causing friction in the wrong place so badly fraying), and inadequately packed. Has clearly been chucked around by couriers - standard, and should have been packed better as this is to be expected. Had no padding round it and had obviously been rattling round in the box. Dirt and potentially harness could have been resolved (if harnesses available as a spare part), seat being thrown around cannot as there's no telling what unseen damage has been done (which is why they advise to replace seat if it's been in even a minor accident).

Sibling B is refusing to contribute at all to cost of new seat, citing money issues and that it's not their responsibility at all, and they've already spent money sending it back. Sibling A also has money issues and can't really afford to replace a seat that they were counting on using and would have been able to had it been packed properly (or if they'd not lent it in the first place - lesson learned there).

I mean, it's obvious which sibling I am, but who is right? Who should have paid for sending it back, and should sibling B offer to contribute to a new seat? Wear and tear and dirt fair enough, seat unusable I think not so much.

I wouldn't have wanted my car seat packed by someone who doesn't have the correct packaging, it would never be safe.
You've been kind op but never lend anything to someone with different attitudes to possessions.
It never ends well.
When people lend me anything it's usually returned cleaner than when I received it.
And I would be cross too.

B is wrong. Don't lend your stuff.

Why couldn't the car seat be returned in person? How far away does he live?

@hellasciously Covid. 5hrs away.

Tbh I think you were a bit extra it was nearly 2 years I wouldn't want something back after that long for a new baby. And if you Cant afford the basics why have another baby? What would you have done with the car seat if your brother didn't have a baby? Sold it? So you'd need one whatever plus thinking about it wouldn't you have to use a newborn one anyway?

[quote Fudgewhizz]@Glenchase see above - not the usage that's the main issue, it's the lack of being bothered to send it safely that I'm cross about. (Though when we gave it to them it had had two years' use and was still pretty much immaculate...) As I've said several times, if it had been wrapped properly we'd still have been able to use it. If it was in a crash it would have been replaced by insurance, and anyway, that sort of thing can't be helped so wouldn't have been their fault. If the situation were reversed I'd have washed the covers, mentioned any damage due to wear and tear so that they were prepared, thanked them for lending it, wrapped it in several layers of bubble wrap and put it in a box with enough padding that it wouldn't move - which would be the normal and considerate thing to do, no?

@HerRoyalNotness Again, as I mentioned above, that was offered but refused.[/quote]
Totally. Its really selfish behaviour by B.

A is being ridiculous. You don’t lend something to be used and then get annoyed because the person used it and wore it out. What if B had a car accident so the seat had to be scrapped and A couldn’t have it back? A must have known that was a possibility? There was never any guarantee of A getting a consumable item like a car seat back

How the buggering hell is a car seat a consumable?

By that logic if you lent a car to a friend and they crashed it without insurance, you would just let it go without expecting any money or a replacement?

You had already used it for two years, then your brother had it for two years, I'd expect it to be ready for the bin by this point, not being used for another child.

What would you have done with the car seat if your brother didn't have a baby? Sold it? So you'd need one whatever plus thinking about it wouldn't you have to use a newborn one anyway?

I had three years between mine. I kept the baby car seat and base bubble wrapped in a damp free place and was perfectly usable for the second. Some people are actuually capable of looking after things.

All I would say is car seats do get pretty messed up, after 2 years it’s going to show signs of wear. Sibling B has already paid out for the return postage. I would just get a new car seat and let this go but learn the lesson the hard way, don’t lend people stuff unless you absolutely trust them because in my experience you either never get it back or it comes back damaged

I don’t think you should lend baby items frankly.

Different people and different babies are hard on stuff. Car sickness and a traumatic journey to Somerset rendered one of ours utterly rancid.

If he’d had a minor car accident what would you have done? You’d not have been able to use it then.

If money is really that tight then ask on Nextdoor if someone has one going.

@Maves I'm not even going to bother responding to the 'if you can't afford it why have another baby' because that's just a stupid comment. We'd have put it in the loft until we needed it again. And car seats exist that you can use from newborn right up to 12 years old now (google the Joie Every Stage, for instance). So no, we wouldn't have needed an extra newborn one and could have used this from birth if we'd actually been given it back in time.

@JellyBabiesFan Precisely!

Sorry but you are being totally unreasonable you shouldn't put your child in a second hand car seat i fact this will be third hand .between siblings maybe but not ideal really but certainly not cousins that is so unsafe .you need to buy a new one
.you shouldn't even have gave them it never mind asked for it back .sorry but this is your problem

But silly to lend a seat that you will want to reuse at some point as presumable anything could have happened in that time , the loaner could have had a car accident etc .

Sorry but I think A is being unreasonable.

If A had not “lent” the car seat to B, it still would have gone past it’s use-by date for the next baby. So even if it had been stored in pristine condition, it is still not safe to use with As new baby.

A should have viewed the car seat as a gift to B, and not demanded it be shipped back. It’s generally not a good idea to re-use a car seat because the plastic does degrade quite quickly. But B had money issues and was forced to get a used car seat, then at least B could trust the car seat A sent would not have been in an accident.

I also have no idea why it “had” to be shipped due to Covid lockdown. I would think a trip to deliver a car seat was essential regardless of whether a Hermes driver is delivering it or B is delivering it. The demand to ship something so heavy and bulky, cost B a bit of money.

A should really not try and refurbish this car seat. A needs to get a new car seat for safety of the new baby. No car seat can safely be used on 3 successive infants.

@Merryoldgoat as I've said upthread (I keep having to type this!), accidents happen and I wouldn't have been cross - plus the insurance company would probably have replaced it anyway. I'm not about to put my child in a car seat bought second hand from a stranger - if I'd do that, I'd have no problem put them in one that has been kicked about by a course, would I?

@Mammaaof what do you do to your car seats?! My other one, that has now had nearly four years of use, is still in excellent condition!

@Diamondella for the eleventy billionth time, it's not the wear and tear that's the problem, it's the damage in transit!

You used it for two years, lent it to them for two years and admit it was a cheap one when you bought it...

You're really going to fall out over a FOUR year old cheap manky car seat?

Your kids deserve to travel safely and comfortably just buy them a bloody new one and scrimp on other things for a month or two.

Just buy another car seat!! Not worth falling out about.

@Fudgewhizz long car journeys food eaten in it, just general wear and tear, you also said it was cheap so just replace it for God sake 🤨 you obviously thought you could afford another child so you shouldn't have banked on being able to use a 4 year old car seat used by 2 different kids, just a bit rank

[quote Fudgewhizz]@Maves I'm not even going to bother responding to the 'if you can't afford it why have another baby' because that's just a stupid comment. We'd have put it in the loft until we needed it again. And car seats exist that you can use from newborn right up to 12 years old now (google the Joie Every Stage, for instance). So no, we wouldn't have needed an extra newborn one and could have used this from birth if we'd actually been given it back in time.

@JellyBabiesFan Precisely![/quote]
The Joie Every Stage that is recommended in the Dont buy group by Which? for its poor safety rating and had a recall in 2013? That car seat?
www.which.co.uk/reviews/child-car-seats/joie-every-stage-fx

@Fudgewhizz that's the risk with sending things in the post. She already had to pay for posting it which would have cost a lot, maybe you should offer to pay for the postage as you want YOUR car seat back so desperately

@PlanDeRaccordement actually it has a ten year life span. And I researched cost and you can ship it for less than £30, which I don't think is a bad deal for two years' use of a decent seat. Couldn't have driven to get it, borders were closed.

@AbbeyBelfast I didn't say it was cheap, I said it was from the cheaper range. It's a very decent seat and would cost £280 to replace (compared to about £100 for a cheap one, and £800 for the most expensive). We've fallen out because he is being really quite horrible to me about it, is refusing to accept that he has done anything even slightly questionable, and is making out that I've demanded he buy a brand new expensive one, which isn't the case at all. Oh, and that he's done us a massive favour by returning something that belongs to us, he's known for a year we'd need back and had agreed to get it back to us safely somehow. Which he didn't because he couldn't be arsed to pack it properly.

You should have said just keep it but send me the money you'd have spent on courier +£50 Or something. That way they
Keep a seat o assume they're using and you get some money towards a New seat.

I'd not have given it to them but that's passed now.
Sending it back filthy is not acceptable or late if you agreed to it being given back earlier.
That's just showing contempt for you and is rude.

Brothers. They can just be ridiculous.
What's his wife's take on this or is she a grub?

Your sibling is wrong for not packaging correctly and not at least cleaning. I leant my sil a walker that was second hand ( given to me by sibling ) but in perfect condition as her ds was a little older . When returned it was filthy and broken and I wouldn't risk using.
I learnt to not lend her anything again and had no offer of a new one.
Not sure I would lend a car seat though, for a long time. Maybe a day or two.
Your sibling is wrong but I think you may have to just chalk it down to experience . Fingers crossed you can buy a good one in a sale, could you sell any baby stuff you don't need to help fund ?

Sibling A should buy another car seat and get some perspective. The original car seat has been used for at least 2 children and 'apparently they have a shelf life, after which time the plastic degrades'. Time for a new seat.