Who should pay?

[Fudgewhizz]

Scenario: Sibling A lent Sibling B a car seat (a good one) to help them out when they had a baby, as money was tight. It was made clear that they would need it back when they had another child.

Sibling A had another child and asked for car seat back, giving several months' notice (obviously). Sibling B had been using seat for 18 months by this point. Covid hit, car seat couldn't be returned in person so needed to be couriered.

It took Sibling B another six months to get round to sending the seat, citing not having found a replacement seat / big enough box to send in / too expensive to send / too busy. Finally got round to sending it (had had it two years). In the meantime, Sibling A has been using car seat that is about to expire (apparently they have a shelf life, after which time the plastic degrades) and will soon be outgrown.

Car seat arrived filthy, with part of the harness worn away due to incorrect usage (twisted belt causing friction in the wrong place so badly fraying), and inadequately packed. Has clearly been chucked around by couriers - standard, and should have been packed better as this is to be expected. Had no padding round it and had obviously been rattling round in the box. Dirt and potentially harness could have been resolved (if harnesses available as a spare part), seat being thrown around cannot as there's no telling what unseen damage has been done (which is why they advise to replace seat if it's been in even a minor accident).

Sibling B is refusing to contribute at all to cost of new seat, citing money issues and that it's not their responsibility at all, and they've already spent money sending it back. Sibling A also has money issues and can't really afford to replace a seat that they were counting on using and would have been able to had it been packed properly (or if they'd not lent it in the first place - lesson learned there).

I mean, it's obvious which sibling I am, but who is right? Who should have paid for sending it back, and should sibling B offer to contribute to a new seat? Wear and tear and dirt fair enough, seat unusable I think not so much.

Is this a solid gold car seat? For goodness sakes i would have just given it to my sister and bought a new one. You should be a bit more generous.

[quote NotFabulousDarling]@PlanDeRaccordement thank you for sharing that info, we almost bought that car seat.

OP, wouldn't a courier invalidate the warranty on the seat unless it was in its original packaging? You can't even take a car seat in checked baggage on a plane without it being deemed as crashed.

Regardless, I think A and B were BU to agree to use a courier, A should buy a new seat, B should have given the courier money to A and that should have been the end of it. But I think A should maybe be a bit less annoyed at B because B did go to the trouble of trying to courier it. But B was silly to do that without sending a picture of what the seat was now like, since if it's that damaged, it was probably obvious. And it does seem like B maybe held onto it this long to avoid having to buy another seat. But did B know A was imminently planning another baby rather than just intending to have one at some point in the nebulous future? Because if so they never should have accepted the car seat (and A shouldn't have offered if this is the case).

So maybe both A and B should draw a line, chalk it up to experience, never lend each other stuff again and move on like nothing happened, since both have been burned here.[/quote]
The Joie Every stage is a perfectly good and safe car seat rear facing to 18kg and then used as a HBB with a seat belt. It's just using it forward facing with the harness to 18kg that it didn't test well. But if you rearface to the same weight, then use it as HBB, there's no need to use it forward facing with the harness.

Unfortunately some people don’t look after stuff. Your brother should have bought his own car seat. It was very kind of you to lend him one and he should have looked after it better.

I think the problem is that it’s done and he has no intention of paying, so there isn’t much you can do except suck it up and buy a cheap new one.

I think you realize now that lending anything to anyone is a really bad idea. People just don’t look after your stuff. Next time someone asks just say no.

Sibling B should pay for new car seat as a replacement & it can also be the new baby gift .

The comment about the OP not being able to afford another child is bloody stupid and not relevant.

OP, you were silly to expect that car seat to still be in usable condition. Hopefully lesson learned there. However it was shitty of your brother to keep making excuses to not send back something that he had agreed to give back to you.

I would just buy a new car seat and remember not to lend him anything again. Move on from it.

I wouldn’t have trusted sending the seat via courier. It probably would have made more sense for sibling b to just send that money to sibling a towards a new seat. Without the original packaging, a seat really shouldn’t be shipped.

I think you have to chalk this one up to lesson learned. You can’t trust most people with car seat safety.

After 18 months, you should have assumed your sister wasn’t giving the car seat back and forgot about it.

This is all about money.

I loaned my sister money she never repaid, and she used to steal money off me too using my bank card. Turns out she’s the most vindictive person I’ve ever heard of. But she volunteers for charity....so keeps up her image. Temporarily, until she gets found out, as she eventually always does.

Summarily, money issues and sisters never end well. Just drop it and buy a new car seat, if you want to keep on eachother’s good terms.

I understand OP being upset about this situation. I don't think it's strange or unreasonable to want people to appreciate your generosity, take care of things you lend them, and return them when asked and in decent condition. However, unfortunately many people are careless with things, even if they're on loan from someone else. It's infuriating, but that's why I no longer loan belongings that are expensive or valuable to me. (I might make an exception for a very few people, but only if I love them and trust them to replace the item if something happens to it.)

Sadly, even if your brother is being awful to you, there's not much you can do about it. Tell him how you feel, maybe, but it doesn't sound like it will make any difference to him. I'd just take a deep breath, resolve never to loan him anything again, and try to let it go.

Unfortunately life is too short. Don’t lend anything to anybody unless you don’t expect it back. Once it’s left your control it’s gone,

He should replace the car seat and you are not being unreasonable! My auntie gave me her car seat when I had my first, she had used it for about a year and a few months later my son was born. I used the car seat and it went back the same way as I got it, I obviously washed the cover as per the manual instructions and thanked her for lending it to me. I think a lot of people tend to let their children eat in car seats and that where all the grim comes from, personally I can’t stand a dirty car seat and mine are kept as clean as the day I bought them!🤷‍♀️

Oh and the joie every stages failed in front facing mode but got a good score rear facing, hence why it’s recommended for rear facing only! Just thought I would clear that up!🙂

Couriers are expensive. Packaging is a cost on top.

If neither of you can afford a car seat (£125) then how can either of you afford a courier (£60+) ?

Never lend something you can't afford to never get back

Where are you op?

I think A is being ridiculous, they shouldn’t have lent a car seat out if they expected it back as it was after two years. And they have made B waste money on courier fees.

You should not have lent it in the first place if you wanted it back in good condition. Car seats are easily trashed and not all potential damage/issues would be covered by insurance.

Move on, unless you feel it's important enough to fall out over. But don't complain later if your kids have no relationship with their cousins/uncle.

A is being unreasonable. A car seat should not be loaned out in the first place due to health and safety concerns, and B giving it back means it would be a third hand car seat you couldn’t guarantee was safe.

Incidentally - me not being neurotypical is also why I'm so fastidious about looking after things (that and lack of funds for replacement). I only realised recently that not everyone does this

Right, but presumably you lived with and were brought up with your brother and know exactly how he personally looks after things.

OP, I think you’re the one in the right - but I also think it’s irrelevant that you’re in the right. Yes, people should look after things they’ve borrowed. But they don’t always, even though they should. If you had borrowed a car seat I’m sure you would have looked after it and returned it in time and unmanaged. It’s really frustrating when you lend to someone who doesn’t have the same approach!

Since you know this about yourself, and about other people, you’ll save yourself a lot of annoyance if you just refuse to lend your stuff to anyone in the future. It’s ok to want to keep your things in good condition. I don’t like lending things either. I’ll happily give things away when I can afford to, but anything I want to reuse stays in my house. I’m quite generous in other ways so I get away with it, as far as I can tell

YABU to ask a question A or B and then get agitated when people don’t say B.

YABU to drip feed when people don’t agree with you.

They are not going to pay, they’ve already paid to return it. Maybe your DBro is being awful because he thinks you ABU, this has clearly gone on for months and you won’t let it go.

What was the reason for not paying you the courier money did they disagree on the amount to pay?

No one foresaw a pandemic.
You need to buy a car seat and dispose of that one.

I'd just buy another seat, clearly it hasnt been looked after and is probably dangerous, so wouldnt use it anyway. Dont lend anything else.

@GreenSlide

B shouldn't have to buy a brand new car seat when the one they borrowed was second hand anyway. Also A sounds like the kind of person to only accept the most expensive, RF until the child is practically ready for secondary school type of seat and most people just can't afford that. Especially if it isn't for their own child.

Yuk.

OP is in the wrong, you can't expect to use a car seat that's been posted to you surely?!

But this. Wow. RF is so important for as long as you can (it's only until about age 3/4 so the children are still so little), loads of people seem to think it's silly guidance but it saves lives.

A is being very silly. 2 years’ use of a borrowed (already used) car seat isn’t going to bring back a brand new car seat.

B was inconsiderate but you’ll save yourself a lot of hassle if you don’t lend things out in future op

This is why I now never lend anything to anyone. No one ever looks after stuff the same as what I do. So whenever anyone say 'can I borrow..?' It is a no from me.

Learnt this as a teen when my older brother would borrow books from me and they would come back with cup rings on or cigarette burns or I wouldn't get them back at all. I can think of 3 books off the top of my head that he still has now and it's been 10 years.

Maybe there's an option to buy a new seat on some sort of finance.

Yeah I’m not sure about this either, sending a car seat is a bastard, those are big items to find packaging for. Secondly it’s been used for two children, so it’s bound to be looking worse for wear

I think expecting your sibling to buy you a new seat isn’t ok.

Of course you could argue they should have packaged it up better, but I’m sure they did their best.

All in I think yout demands here are unreasonable.

YABU. You were silly to expect a car seat used by 2 kids over 4 years to be in good condition. let it go, move on