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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

In-laws have declined the vaccine... AIBU?

543 replies

HotGlueGun · 30/01/2021 11:14

So my in-laws (early 70s) have declined to have the vaccine. They are in our childcare bubble and so we see them regularly. They also ask us to do their shopping. WIBU to a) stop doing their shopping for them and b) reduce/ stop their contact with the kids? I'm really cross about but appreciate that they have free will and it's their choice. But resent having to do shopping for them... it's like they are happy for us to be at risk and aren't prepared to take reasonable steps to reduce their vulnerability and eliminate the risk for themselves/ the wider community.

OP posts:
BeaSmithers · 30/01/2021 12:26

Would you be saying the same if it were your parents.....or is it because it's the in laws?

Devlesko · 30/01/2021 12:26

Your dh shouldn't be insisting anything, you have a dh problem, not in laws.
Why do women always blame the ils when it's clearly the dh with the problem.

AveEldon · 30/01/2021 12:26

YABU

trulydelicious · 30/01/2021 12:27

@peapotter

It is likely, from evidence from other vaccines, that it will reduce transmission risk significantly, but the studies haven’t been done yet

There are no vaccines comparable (in terms of technology) to the Covid vaccines (especially Pfizer and Moderna). So still an unknown whether they can prevent transmission or not

Xenia · 30/01/2021 12:27

Just don't use them for the informal childcare any more and don't buy their shopping - no need to do that at all.

for those asking I believe this is the definition of the childcare household (colloquially known as bubble)

"inked childcare households

6A.—(1) Where a household includes at least one child aged 13 or under (“the first household”), that household may link with one other household (“the second household”) for the purpose of the second household providing informal childcare to the child aged 13 or under in the first household provided that—

(a)neither the first household nor the second household are linked with any other household for the purpose of providing informal childcare for the purpose of these Regulations or any other Regulations made under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984; and

(b)all the adult members of both households agree.

(2) The first household and the second household are “linked childcare households” in relation to each other.

(3) The first household and the second household cease to be linked childcare households when neither household includes a child aged 13 or under.

(4) Once the first household and the second household cease to be linked childcare households, neither household may be a linked childcare household with any other household.”.

9toenails · 30/01/2021 12:28

I just want to disagree with those who say these people refusing the vaccine are entitled to do so because they are only harming themselves. This is not so.

Not getting vaccinated in the current circumstances puts other people at risk. The more people who do not get the vaccine, the more likely it is that the virus will remain in the population, the more likely it is that it will evolve/mutate, and the more likely it is that more people some of them vaccinated will die.

These are not matters of opinion. They are scientific facts.

It may be a matter of opinion whether, in the light of these facts, OP's in-laws are entitled still to refuse to be vaccinated. For myself, I think putting other people at risk through one's behaviour is wrong. OP's in-laws are being selfish and irresponsible.

It may be that there is a small risk to getting vaccinated. Such a risk, even if it were to exist, would be sufficiently small, that given the large risk to others, it would still be selfish and irresponsible not to accept offered vaccination.

Possibly OP's in-laws do not understand the risk to others. If so, they should take the opportunity to inform themselves. Ignorance is no excuse.

There are indeed good reasons for not making health-care choices legally enforceable. We can argue that another time, perhaps. For now, it is important to recognise that we have moral obligations to one another. Getting vaccinated in order to fight disease is one of those obligations.

This is important. Not to mince words, OP's in-laws should realise and, OP, they possibly should be told that not getting vaccinated makes them bad people.

TheChip · 30/01/2021 12:29

Isn't there no evidence to suggest that the vaccine prevents transmission anyway?
Considering they are more at risk from your dc, than your dc are at risk from them. Id say you were punishing them for making a decision that you do not agree with.

HighSpecWhistle · 30/01/2021 12:29

@HotGlueGun

This is the link to the government site re: childcare bubbles. Show me where it says it's for NECESSARY childcare please. www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a-childcare-bubble-with-another-household
Get a grip. It's a global pandemic. ANY contact outside of your household should be NECESSARY.

Geez, you seem to have the same attitude as your in-laws. A total disregard for the situation.

RonaldMcDonald · 30/01/2021 12:29

This is a brilliantly old skool AIBU
Fixed idea @HotGlueGun - her actions are good actions - helping the old people by dumping her kids on them, bless her
Their actions are BAD -punish them by not delivering food

Anyone saying - er, that’s not right she comes out and doubles down on why her idea is beneficent and their’s selfish requiring punishment

Two older people, relatively cut off from the world, make choices you don’t agree with
Stop dumping your potentially Covid ridden kids on them
Shopping for them, caring about them should not end
Informing them about the vaccination gently might also help

EloiseTheFirst · 30/01/2021 12:30

OK so you need to have a sensible discussion with them.

What are their plans for the next 12-18 months? Are they going to start going out and about and take their chances?

If not, I think it's unfair that you do their shopping.

With regards to childcare, the risk is the same now as it was before they declined their vaccination so I'm not sure why you'd stop it unless it's to "punish" them.

I do think they're being very silly. They need to make an informed decision. Find out as much info as you can and try and persuade them to consider it all with an open mind.

Forrasee · 30/01/2021 12:30

@HotGlueGun

This is the link to the government site re: childcare bubbles. Show me where it says it's for NECESSARY childcare please. www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a-childcare-bubble-with-another-household
It's right at the top of that link where it says

You must not leave your home unless necessary.

farwin · 30/01/2021 12:32

OP - I feel for you.
My MIL and FIL are also refusing to get the vaccine as they 'don't trust it'. They are both in early 70s and one is diabetic.
They live quite far from us and we haven't seen them in over a year.
MIL got very upset when DH told her that their refusal to vaccinate meant we wouldn't be able to visit once restrictions are lifted. If we went to visit we would be exposing them to 3 schools worth of risk (from 2DCs in different schools and I am in a school) - we have told them we are not taking that risk, it would not be fair on our DCs to feel they may have passed it on to vulnerable family members.
My own parents don't understand it. They are 63/64 so not eligible for a while, but are desperate to get the vaccine in order to be with their grandchildren.

WombatChocolate · 30/01/2021 12:32

I would print out some information from a government website about the vaccine and ask them to read it.

I would tell them that their age places them at risk and the vaccine has been tested and approved and is strictly controlled and give them figures of how many of their age group have accepted the vaccine. I would tell them that you and your family would feel so much happier knowing they are protected.

Remind them, that because they have declined, doesn’t mean they can’t change their mind.

Also point out that without the vaccine, they will remain at risk for months or years and that it really wouldn’t be good for them to stay in isolated for that period of time. That is what they are essentially choosing.

Give them a few days to think about it.

Ask them about it again and if they would like you to call the surgery to say they would not like to accept the protection offered.

Do all of this first. The key thing is they have the vaccine. Only after yourself exhausted all efforts to achieve this should you start considering if you want to withdraw shopping or the children being with them.

Are they members if a group or community who have objections to the vaccine? It is unusual for people to not have internet or TV these days. What is their context?

Seeline · 30/01/2021 12:32

Do your in-laws leave the house at all?

Are they having contact with any other people beyond oyur household?

Thewinterofdiscontent · 30/01/2021 12:32

The risk doesn’t change for you though. Whatever you’re doing now won’t be less risky for you with them being immune.
You’ve been happy to take the risk of shopping up to this point.
They are far more likely to get seriously ill from Covid than you or your children, so while you are right to worry for them it’s a bit churlish to blame them for not protecting you.

Orchidflower1 · 30/01/2021 12:33

@HotGlueGun I’d ditch them seeing the children and I’d arrange online shopping. They obviously don’t care about keeping themselves safe. What other things are they going to do?

VinylDetective · 30/01/2021 12:35

@RonaldMcDonald, this is utter bollocks. They’ve chosen to cut themselves off from the world. In my (late 60s) world everyone has TV and internet. Everyone my age either does their own shopping in person or online. They’re not in their 90s.

The fact is they’re perfectly prepared to put themselves at risk when it suits them (childcare) but not when it doesn’t (shopping) and not prepared to mitigate the risk for themselves or other people. Fuck ‘em.

clarcats · 30/01/2021 12:35

Their bodies, their decision regarding having the vaccine or not. As for being at risk IF you get Covid-the risks really aren't that high unless you're elderly and have several existing issues which already make you vulnerable.
You say you have Asthma, but unless you are taking certain medications that make you specifically vulnerable (check Asthma UK if you're not certain) then you don't have to be over cautious either. The problem is the media portrayal of it all and that's what has influenced your thoughts. If they don't watch TV/internet etc then they've based their decision on their own thoughts-their choice. Oh and your children aren't at risk if they get Covid-they're more at risk if they get flu.
It would be unkind of you to not respect their decisions (and judgemental) and as a result withdraw their grandchildren from seeing them or doing their shopping!

tigger1001 · 30/01/2021 12:35

What does your oh think? Does he want to stop the kids going there or to stop shopping for them?

I don't think anyone in this senario is being unreasonable. They don't have to have the vaccine and you don't need to shop for them.

If it was me personally, I wouldn't say anything about them not having the vaccine and I would continue to shop for them as I would want to help them. The two things are not connected for me.

sapnupuas · 30/01/2021 12:36

@Forrasee

Well said.

Stop abusing the childcare bubble system, OP. My parents live around the corner. My parents are desperate to see their grandchild. I'm desperate for a fucking break. And yet we understand that we can't form a bubble for no good reason.

You're being selfish.

GintyMcGinty · 30/01/2021 12:37

If they are willing to take the risks by not being vaccinated then carry on with the childcare and let them do their own shopping.

BareGrylls · 30/01/2021 12:37

At 70 they are quite young to have no internet access, especially if MIL worked for a pharmaceutical company, she can't have been retired that long. And no tv? Are they off grid or something?

ThatchersCold · 30/01/2021 12:38

The vaccine apparently doesn’t stop you from catching or spreading the virus so what difference does it make to you or your DC whether they have it or not? The only people they are allegedly endangering is themselves.

dottiedodah · 30/01/2021 12:39

I think they are being unreasonable but you cannot make people have vaccinations against their will! Could you maybe ask the Nurse at their GP surgery, to give them a call and explain the advantages? Its their choice at the end of the day really .

HuggedTheRedwoods · 30/01/2021 12:40

They do not have internet access/ a television... so hear snippets of info and make them their own.

Not the point of your thread I know OP, but do they really have no outside communication? Could you give them a radio or newspaper delivery? I know we have to becareful of some news outlets, fake news etc but maybe they've become a bit too isolated.

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