In-laws have declined the vaccine... AIBU?

[HotGlueGun]

So my in-laws (early 70s) have declined to have the vaccine. They are in our childcare bubble and so we see them regularly. They also ask us to do their shopping. WIBU to a) stop doing their shopping for them and b) reduce/ stop their contact with the kids? I'm really cross about but appreciate that they have free will and it's their choice. But resent having to do shopping for them... it's like they are happy for us to be at risk and aren't prepared to take reasonable steps to reduce their vulnerability and eliminate the risk for themselves/ the wider community.

@Mitzimccormack
I'm old. I remember thalidomide well.

It wasn't a vaccine.

I also remember polio, whooping cough, TB, measles, mumps and German measles. They are relevant to the current discussion. Where did you get 99% from?

Covid affects the very old and those with certain underlying health conditions.
Funny how they're reporting it in much younger people now in ITU

And I'm definitely not stupid. The minute I'm called for my jab, I'll be there.

@mitzimccormack 'The undeniable fact is that Covid affects the very old and those with certain underlying health conditions.'

That's neither a fact, nor undeniable:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-55168292
Our local health board has put out a post saying that half of their covid patients are under 55 with many being normally well.

'This disease is not dangerous to over 99% of the population.' How can you possibly know that? Going by statistics it is a 3% death rate in the UK. That is without long term effects like scarred lungs, and people that die on day 29 or 30 etc. So where does this not dangerous to 99% of the population come from?

@glassshoes

Their choice not to have it and your choice to not continue with their shopping.

this

plus anyone that refuses vaccine with no valid reason should also be barred from NHS care if they get covid.

EveryDayIsADuvetDay

I hope you have a VERY healthy lifestyle, don't smoke, don't drink, don't eat fast food, exercise regularly, eat organic, don't use cosmetics with carcinogens and have all your vaccines and check-ups up to date. In case you get ill and someone has to treat you you can prove you've done everything to prevent it. Oh and don't drive the car - accidents happen.

Exactly NicolasCage 😂 whatever you think of the vaccine, that kind of attitude of ‘you don’t get NHS treatment if you don’t get the vaccine’ sets a stupidly dangerous precedent.

@NicolasCage

EveryDayIsADuvetDay

I hope you have a VERY healthy lifestyle, don't smoke, don't drink, don't eat fast food, exercise regularly, eat organic, don't use cosmetics with carcinogens and have all your vaccines and check-ups up to date. In case you get ill and someone has to treat you you can prove you've done everything to prevent it. Oh and don't drive the car - accidents happen.

Your examples are not of behavior that readily spreads deadly infectious disease during a global pandemic.

Try again.

plus anyone that refuses vaccine with no valid reason should also be barred from NHS care if they get covid.

Madness. By the same logic, you should be denied NHS care if you refuse any other recommended treatment. You have the right to refuse, so no, you shouldn’t be punished for it.

It’s a good thing those people have rights without needing to take any responsibility.

It is a good thing, in this case.

thankfully I don't have to cast off anyone, as there is no one in my family who is so fucking stupid as to refuse the vaccine.

I find this unbelievably arrogant. You don’t know everyone’s reasoning for accepting or declining medical interventions. That you are prepared to reduce everyone else’s thinking to whether they agree with you or are “fucking stupid” says more about you than about them.

Here’s an interesting one.....apparently a sizeable number if care home staff who have been offered the vaccine have refused it.

What do people think about that? Should it be a requirement if the job that they accept it and if they don’t they cannot carry out their work in the current circumstances?

What do people think about that? Should it be a requirement if the job that they accept it and if they don’t they cannot carry out their work in the current circumstances?

No. Vaccinate the elderly. That protects them. Nobody has a right to force other people to accept a medical treatment or be fired.

Madness. By the same logic, you should be denied NHS care if you refuse any other recommended treatment. You have the right to refuse, so no, you shouldn’t be punished for it.

The difference is, as has been said before, that refusing this particular 'treatment' doesn't only put you at risk, but other people. It also needlessly puts frontline staff at risk.

Obviously, they have a right to refuse the vaccine, but the consequence is that other people will be resentful that they're being put at risk by that decision.

Mittens030869

That is a difference. But it isn’t the point. People aren’t deliberately passing on a virus - it’s a natural phenomenon. People are welcome to protect themselves from infection by vaccination or by self-isolation. What they are not entitled to do is to curtail everyone else’s fundamental freedoms to protect themselves. It is not okay to force people to take a medical treatment that they don’t want or think might harm them. Ever. That was established at the Nuremberg trials and is a fundamental plank in medical ethics. So stop it.

I'm not saying that they should be forced to have the vaccine, I said they had a right to refuse. But they have to accept that people will judge them for that decision, for very understandable reasons.

Mittens030869

Oh of course. People are welcome to say whatever they like. Sticks and stones, and all that.

@hotgluegun of course its for necessary childcare otherwise everybody could be sending their kids to their grandparents ?
When they have the kids do you also visit and go in the house ?

I wonder if more will get vaccine if it becomes mandatory to travel ?
Which who knows it could especially in short term

The bottom line is the UK does not have mandatory vaccines so anyone worried about that really does not need to be concerned. I am very pro vax as are most people in the UK but I respect the right of everyone to choose on a case by case basis which they take.

We don't quite know yet the effects of this vaccine in terms of it is stops someone vaccinated from spreading the virus and that kind of basic thing but I will sure data will be gathered soon on that kind of issue and also the all important one of whether pregnant women should have it - because if not and IF, very big if, airlines made it mandatory then that would be a large number of women not allowed to go abroad on holiday or for work.

I would like to know what it was that I said which had my post deleted? No seriously mumsnet......DO tell me.....Did I hit the nail on the head per chance?

Wouldn't you be worried if you had a relative in a care home, if you knew the careers were refusing the vaccine?

In the NHS in hospitals, in the last, staff have been strongly encouraged to have the flu jab. It hasn't been obligatory but there has been STRONG persuasion.
Pink, do you think it is wrong that they face strong persuasion to have the flu jab or that careers might face similar strong persuasions?

I ask this Q as a sideline to the Q about the Op’s PIL.

Pink, you seem to object to any attempt to persuade people to take a course of action...ie for the OP to try to persuade the in-laws to have th jab, or to provide further information about it. The Carers refusing the jab just made me think further about this issue.

Is it okay for employers such as the NHS to push their staff to get vaccinated if they deal with the vulnerable? Given we know carers were big spreaders of the virus in Homes and the death rate was severe in the first phase of the virus, is it wrong to try to influence those Carers decision or an infringement if their right to choose?

Would it be wrong if looking to employ new Carers, to not hire someone who had chosen not to be vaccinated over someone who had?

Pink, do you think it is wrong that they face strong persuasion to have the flu jab or that careers might face similar strong persuasions?

Define “strong persuasion”.

Pink, you seem to object to any attempt to persuade people to take a course of action

There are different levels of objection, aren’t there? I think printing off leaflets of “the facts” for adults a generation your senior who have made up their minds is bloody patronising. Removing their relationships with their family members because they won’t obey you is wrong. Removing access to jobs because someone won’t obey you is probably illegal.

My objections are proportionate to that scale.

@AStudyinPink you crack on. I'll just continue helping out at my local vaccine centre as I have for the past month. Lots of grateful people there.