Friend went snooping

[Sunnyshades5]

I'm really close to a man who's changed his whole life around in the last year! He went through years of struggle that led to bad choices and he ended up in hospital. I won't go into huge details.

He's months and months sober.
Earning good money and working 5-6 solid days a week.
He's rescued a dog as part of his recovery. The dog gives him something positive and keeps him company.
He's skilled in what he does and is always getting offers for work. He's popular and seems to be supported alot. He also reaches out to anyone struggling and offers to tell them how he did it. He often gets contacted because he really has turned around.

We didn't plan to become close. But we met through a friend and developed an instant friendship. We are several months into a really close friendship. It's cups of tea and conversations. I can call him anytime. He can call me. We catch up everyday and once life resumes more we will probably go out and about places. Overall he's just lovely and I think the world of him. We help eachother with anything the other can't do.

I know his story. He's told me all the details. Why it happened. What happened. How it ended. He also told me part of his recovery is to be honest about his past. He told me he was terrified of meeting new people and opening up. But he felt safe talking to me and I know it was a massive thing telling me.

My best friend was curious about him as we've been close a while now. So I told her all his good points. Told her he's had some struggles and kept his story private mostly.

She went digging. I think her heart was in the right place. But her husband works in the same Industry and she sent him to work to dig out info. She then text me to ask if I was free for a walk.

I went to meet her. She asked to see his photo. Then she told me her husband had found out he's a p**s head. He's done this and that. She told me everything he had openly told me. I thanked her for caring. Told her he's not hiding anything. He's told me in detail everything she just said. I then said all I can say is he's like this now. He's turned his life around. He didn't want to be that person. He didn't enjoy being that person. He's trying to lead a normal life now and whilst I can't say he never will relapse he's currently living a normal life.

I'm just upset with it. People love gossip. People find it so easy to judge. To Tear someone to pieces. I fully expected one day my friend would meet him. But now she's made me feel like she's written him off. I just feel she had no right to snoop. Go fishing for information. Go discussing me with men who do not know me. What if it gets back to my friend. How is he supposed to feel?

How would you feel? I do understand people would have seen him when he was poorly and that will be their view on him. But I still feel my friend had no right.

"As I say mental health is almost fashionable on Facebook. Yet when you read on here it's no wonder people end their lives or don't talk. You can be written off for struggling and be accused of battering women and children."

No only some things are fashionable, anxieties to get out of doing what you don't want to, depression for an excuse to disengage and get sympathy, narcissism to blame everything on everyone else.

Shit like addiction, real anxiety depression, eubpd schizophrenia these aren't cool because you can't have them one minute and be gone the next. They're just there

@Sinful8 it's more like personal experience of people who had others promising them something and then were failed.
They're advising caution and the fact that the OP tends to sugarcoat her man's previous life and find excuses isn't helping. There's nothing wrong with being cautious around an addict.

This is a difficult one.

My initial reaction was to side with your male friend - the poor guy has turned his life around and should be given a chance and not judged so harshly.

But you have got close very quickly and are in contact an awful lot, so I wouldn't blame your friend for trying to find out more for your sake.

The main thing is, you really didn't want to hear what she had to say.

I’m not sure how this bloke is wonderfully open and honest when he’s only disclosed information that is freely available to anyone who looks?

Sorry OP, I don’t know how his recovery will go but this man sounds like a creep. Your post has my skin crawling about him TBH.

I don’t expect you to listen to me or any other rando on the internet, but please be cautious. Even without the alcoholism, this bloke would be sounding alarm bells for me.

I am defending him
Why does he need defending OP?

The thing is I'm not going to be moving in with him or relying on him for anything. I'm just his friend and ofcourse it will take time. I know emotionally he isn't balanced yet. But I also know none of us are perfect. My friend who dug out the info isn't perfect. She smokes weed for example. Her husband's depressed and sometimes smokes weed to sleep. They are still good people and functioning parents.

But surely you can see the difference between someone who smokes weed occasionally in a way that doesn't impact on the rest of their life, and someone whose alcoholism made his life so dysfunctional that he was hospitalised?

OP, I don't personally see anything in what you've said so far that indicates you're being consciously 'played' by this man.

But the other possibilities aren't that rosy -- for instance, you describe him as your 'friend', and haven't responded to questions about whether you are romantically attracted to him, but what you say suggests strongly that you are, and that you are minimising his past and glamourising it, and that this is what is alarming your friend to the point she looked him up.

And you were shaken enough to post on here, not because of what she found out, which you say you already knew, but perhaps because you were seeing him through the eyes of someone who wasn't viewing him as a tormented soul who 'made bad choices' but as a longterm dysfunctional alcoholic.

Also, OP, I'm really hoping you aren't the poster who's posted before about this man -- I should say I haven't done any searches, and don't remember the other poster's name anyway, but there are quite a lot of coincidences between the two situations. Because if you are the other poster, you're concealing a lot of the more disturbing things about him in this thread, like the reason he was hospitalised, and the circumstances of his relationship to at least one of his children.

My husband has a interesting past, I told my friend about it and she told me to leave him.
I didn’t, I married him and I proud everyday of who he is and what he overcame.
Friends can care without judgement or investigation.
People have the right everyday to show up differently.
Keep enjoying him. X x

Sinful sums it up best.
And it doesn't matter what is 'fashionable' right now on FB. Ignore that. Most of that is just people who have never experienced alcoholism, sharing 'positive' posts. It's easier to click on a share button than to live with a drinker. Also you mention his kids, but adult children can be the most damaged. When I was at Al Anon, the most damaged that I met, were people in their 70s, 80s, who had had an alcoholic parent...the parent was long dead, the child had built their own life, families, etc and moved into old age...but... in my opinion they had it hardest as it really is a family disease..and even if they never turned to drink themselves, they had never got over their upbringings.
There's a thread on MN right now about OP wishing their alcoholic DH was dead. It's not happy reading, for sure, but it's honest and represents the reality.
Not saying it would be like that for you if got involved further. But you do need your eyes open more than they are right now...and yes I was in your shoes...I fell in love with the 'reformed character' who was open about his past and looking to the future...that future came, and it ruined my life completely....he is gone and I will never be the person I was before meeting him.

And using weed to go to sleep (as I have in past or for period pain) is not even comparable..for most it's not addictive and does not affect others lives (I'm not defending it , as i know it CAN, but I don't think it's really comparable to the chaos of the drinker..)

your friend is right to care enough about you. you can't lose with friends like that.
Even if she might be going a little too far, is there really such a thing as going to far when it might be a heart saver for you down the line.
At the end of the day you have to go on your instincts and life experience. As long as you know yourself really well, you can handle relationships relying on your own counsel.

I still don't understand how the words of a good long term friend carry less weight than those of a recovering addict.
Please listen to those of us who've been there with addicts.

@KorumamaT

My husband has a interesting past, I told my friend about it and she told me to leave him. I didn’t, I married him and I proud everyday of who he is and what he overcame. Friends can care without judgement or investigation. People have the right everyday to show up differently. Keep enjoying him. X x

The thing is, as I've pointed out before, on similar threads, is that what constitutes an 'interesting past' is highly gendered, and men and women are still socialised entirely differently in terms of catering to someone else's 'interesting past'. There really is no male equivalent to being attracted to 'bad boys', reformed or otherwise, and quite often if you flip the sexes, and imagine the 'bad boy' someone is banging on about as female, it can be extremely revealing.

How thrilled would you be if your brother or son or father started dating a newly sober longterm female alcoholic, who had done prison time, been hospitalised after a suicide attempt, bore the visible scars of past fights, had children she hadn't seen for years until she got sober etc?

(Not talking about the OP's friend here, obviously, but remembering another similar thread which featured an OP glamourising and minimising her boyfriend's past.)

I think your female friend is on your side and trying to look after you, but l wonder if she has form for assuming that you NEED looking after and you rather resent that and that is why you are so vexed with her now? I've got a very old friend who sees herself as a sort of "Wise Matriarch" figure and hands out advice (usually very good and sensible advice) whether you asked for it or not and then points out regularly afterwards how she steered you right. The temptation to do the exact opposite of what she suggests is huge, even if you were going to do what she said in the first place!

I don't have any real experience of addiction but lots of previous posters do and l think you should keep their words in the back of your mind while you are becoming firmer friends with this new man.

OP, he sounds very lucky to have a friend like you.

You must realise though that your current relationship is entirely different to his previous partner's experience.

I am married to a recovered addict. I am very naturally trusting, understanding, supportive, non judgmental and all those other good things you urge everyone on this thread to be. I am a great friend. I have stuck by him through the absolute darkest days.

And because of that, I say that hearing him describe the pain he has caused is only a window into the actual pain he has caused.

That's how I know that you won't ever understand until you are there. And some people who have experienced it, like me, may come across to you as uncaring and judgmental but we're just telling you to take your time, be cautious and make sure you keep your eyes open.

I really hope he continues on this path. He sounds like a good man. And you sound like you really care for him.

Woodsorrel, it's so upsetting to read your story.
And I've been there with the violence but not to that extreme... for me the blackmail and disturbing threats were worse (making me sit all night with a knife to my throat, etc)
But he BROKE your back. And you are still friends with him- I want to cry tears of rage on your behalf reading this. It's NOT ok because he didn't mean it! You are NOT lucky! I'm assuming you mean , lucky because you can walk again. But you are not lucky to have this happen in the first place. This man should be in prison. He does not deserve your friendship in any way , shape or form. This is classic enabling as somethings can't be forgiven. He could do it again and the next woman not so 'lucky'.
I'm often told I'm lucky because I'm alive and my ex is now dead. Most days I don't feel this at all, as he found peace and I have to still live with the shock and PTSD. He got off lightly. And I did forgive, just before he died .. but I kind of wish I hadn't, as it does victims a disservice. I won't ever forget ...and right now I'm reliving so much I'm not sure I could forgive him again...dead or not..

@woodsorrel1

That man should be in prison for breaking your back. He doesn't deserve to see you at let alone have you care about him. Him being contrite and apologetic and you being gracious and forgiving doesn't mean it's healthy for you to have him in your life. I really hope you have people around you looking out for you

As I say mental health is almost fashionable on Facebook.

Do you mean mental illness, OP? I'd hope that most people would have mental health, whether it's fashionable or not.

I’m sorry I agree with other posters.

I’m sure he is wonderful, but your best friend is just looking out for you. If you’ve never suffered with poor mental health then I would suggest that you’ve probably indicated to her, possibly with long rambles about how great this guy is, that you’re at risk of being drawn into something that might not be good for you. It’s quite clear you fancy this man rotten.

She loves and cares for you. You’re hurt now but you’ll get over it. And hopefully, if your relationship does develop further, everything will be well.

Goodness, @woodsorrel1, when I began reading your post I was thinking of suggesting you investigate whether the man who broke your back had insurance for personal liability, as you would be entitled to compensation (if it was within the last three years) which you are very likely to need. And it turns out you're still friends with him! Oh, dear.

Saw myself getting torn abit so went away but can see there are people willing to see both sides plans not just jump and judge.

It's interesting how often posters start threads asking for opinions, then develop a selective deafness towards anyone not agreeing with them. Very few people have written this man off OP - but many of us are saying you need to be very careful. Addicts are manipulative and you have only known him for a brief time, and under odd circumstances (lockdown).

I understand how it reads. He reads like some horrible man. But he's a father. A son. A friend. He's skilled. He has a variety of things. He played football. He can turn a messy garden into a beautiful outdoor space. He is a human being who just wants to be happy and loved.

People can be all those things and also dangerous to be around. They can be all those things when sober and something completely different when drunk.

But I can see the man underneath who needs to live a life on the other side of that hell.

That's just textbook saviour complex.

Until he does something bad I have no reason to suspect him of hiding his real self.

But he has done bad things. He's told you about them.

We share all this stuff about being kind and supporting mental health. Yet look how quick people are to write them off.

You keep using 'mental health' when I think you mean 'mental illness'. Everyone has mental health - it can be good, bad and indifferent and will vary over your lifetime. Some people have mental illness. I have depression, and also at times suffer from stress and anxiety. My mental health can be poor. Addiction is a particular problem though. It's not helpful to put all mental illnesses together any more than you would put all physical illnesses together.

You're seeing responses in a very black and white way OP - agree with your saviour complex and you thank them for understanding and forgiving. Flag up some issues and we must be writing him off. I'm not writing him off. I'm saying your friend was right to express concerns and it was a brave thing of her to approach you.

I agree with you your friend had no right to ask her husband to go digging for dirt on your new friend, but she did it out of concern for you.

That aside if you aren’t thinking of having a relationship with this man then I cannot see a problem as you can close your door any time.
If you are thinking of having a relationship with him then I would take things extremely slowly.

@Arobase

As I say mental health is almost fashionable on Facebook.

Do you mean mental illness, OP? I'd hope that most people would have mental health, whether it's fashionable or not.

That's what I thought, same as everyone has blood pressure. Do'h!

Op, you said you are prepared to call it a day if he goes backwards and aren't being enmeshed in a way which means he could be in a position to sabotage your life. So great, everyone needs a hand up and a chance when they are trying to turn their life around. You sound like you are aware of the risks but prepared to give him credit for the work he has done. So long as you don't get sucked in to the point you tolerate things you shouldn't why not be his friend. Should we put him on the scrap heap of life? No! Should you be careful and priced with caution, obviously yes, but sounds like you know that.
Your original question is whether your friend was out of line. I don't think so, for all the reasons people have mentioned on here.

Late to the party, and everyone's gone home, but your friend is looking out for you and as charming as this person is,he needs to sort his Mental health out first .He's probably telling you what you want to hear and it's a good technique to tell you everything before you hear it from someone else. Some addicts are skilled manipulators and liars and will use anyone they can to help themselves. People dont change. Please be careful.