AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 3

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

@Thewithesarehere

i mean this genuinely. What about her do you not want? Now you are invading personal space. Why is this your business?

Sorry I didn't word that well.

What I mean by this is , because she's trans or because she's 'male'? As you said she was kind and caring etc.

I obviously don't want to invade something we sensitive as that!

@BarbaraofKent

I don't disagree.

But no one seems to have the answer of what any of that means in practice.

*What's the answer in there scenarios? Sorry wee boy, you can't play or have a scholarship or stay with anyone else because you are transgender.

He is someones child too.*

See, that is such a nasty manipulation tactic, as if anyone is saying a transgender male child can't play or take part in social activities. It is like all those people saying the rugby rules bans transwomen from playing rugby.
That is not the case. Transgender male children can play sports with other children and have sleep overs and so on, with other male children. Treating them all equal. Just as transwomen can play rugby. On the team for their sex which is the mens team.

@sanluca

*What's the answer in there scenarios? Sorry wee boy, you can't play or have a scholarship or stay with anyone else because you are transgender.

He is someones child too.*

See, that is such a nasty manipulation tactic, as if anyone is saying a transgender male child can't play or take part in social activities. It is like all those people saying the rugby rules bans transwomen from playing rugby.
That is not the case. Transgender male children can play sports with other children and have sleep overs and so on, with other male children. Treating them all equal. Just as transwomen can play rugby. On the team for their sex which is the mens team.

No tactic at all.

Im pointing out that there is no right answer. To any of this.

What is it with all this "what about the men/males"

No one is stopping men and males having all the opportunities in the world open to men and males. But in a thread talking about whether women actually have the right to ask questions abiut the idea males should be allowed into womens spaces, wher we fave losing the right to single sex sports spaces and opportunities that are meant to adress the imbalance and oppression women face at the hands of males and all you care about is defending the right to some males being able to override those boundaries.

What I mean by this is , because she's trans or because she's 'male'? As you said she was kind and caring etc.

It’s because she is not a woman and this poster felt she can’t feel comfortable with anyone but a woman. It’s her body, her choice.

@Whatwouldscullydo

What is it with all this "what about the men/males"

No one is stopping men and males having all the opportunities in the world open to men and males. But in a thread talking about whether women actually have the right to ask questions abiut the idea males should be allowed into womens spaces, wher we fave losing the right to single sex sports spaces and opportunities that are meant to adress the imbalance and oppression women face at the hands of males and all you care about is defending the right to some males being able to override those boundaries.

No. That's not all I care about.

@Thewithesarehere

What I mean by this is , because she's trans or because she's 'male'? As you said she was kind and caring etc.

It’s because she is not a woman and this poster felt she can’t feel comfortable with anyone but a woman. It’s her body, her choice.

Of course it is.

I don't understand whether it was the transgender or male aspect but I've caught up now.

What's the answer in there scenarios? Sorry wee boy, you can't play or have a scholarship or stay with anyone else because you are transgender.
The answer is for them to have their own space. Just as women fought or have theirs.
When your child likes a toy, you go and buy it for them, you don’t snatch it from someone else to give it them just because you can.

@Thewithesarehere

What's the answer in there scenarios? Sorry wee boy, you can't play or have a scholarship or stay with anyone else because you are transgender. The answer is for them to have their own space. Just as women fought or have theirs. When your child likes a toy, you go and buy it for them, you don’t snatch it from someone else to give it them just because you can.

I don't disagree. But that's much easier in words than practice.

Part of the answer has to be in avoiding the need for people to feel transgender by minimising gender

[quote RootyT00t]@DialSquare
Is your solution that we just nip this in the bud and tell human beings that they are not women? Would that fix anything? Or would not being accepted and not feeling secure spiral them into more mental health, more hurt, more anger, but that's OK because they're not in the changing rooms.[/quote]
You just said that it's not a mental health problem. More trying to square a circle from you.

We're been through all the answers that would be fair for everyone but that's not good enough for Rooty. She says she doesn't only care about the Trans view in this bit her post show she does. I printed out that many women will not be able to use single sex spaces if they become mixed sex so 3rd spaces should be an option. All Rooty cared about was what if the Trans people didn't want to use the 3rd space.

FFS. Fat finger phone typing. Ignore the typos.

I don't disagree. But that's much easier in words than practice.
Being nice is nearly always harder than being the opposite of nice. It takes a lot of effort to not snatch when you can. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Hey can we get the third spaces and leave women's spaces for the transwomen ? I mean it's starting again but we done it before

Whether it's right or not or wrong, I go back to what I said at the start of this.

My thoughts come from really feeling for these people.

They spend their childhood not fitting in. I can't imagine how it must feel to feel you aren't the right gender. In the wrong body if you will. They have to play on what they feel is the wrong team, they can't enter things they feel thry could. They transition physically or emotionally.

They go to work. Someone doesn't want them (not aimed at PP, aimed at many of these examples ). They cant get changed at work or socially. They have to say watch hideous stereotypes and read comments about them just being wrong and they should just stop. They're not how they were born but thyr not their Identity either.

Maybe I am naive, lacking critical skills. But I do feel that.

@Fuckingcrustybread thanks for the shout but I've already addressed that point when asked about it previously.

The fact it is based on belief not fact does not make it any easier for these transwomen and transmen to operate in a world that doesn't fucking accept them

Why should their belief trump female sex based reality and rights. Why can't they respect our privacy and dignity not to want male bodies is sex separated spaces?

You throw out the old 'transwomen are being murdered left, right and centre bullshit' and that they are not the safest demographic.

You were shown the truth then still refuse to believe it.

They are the safest demographic in the uk
More transwomen have been murderers than have been murdered (8 in 10 years) most by sexual partners. Not set upon by strangers just for being trans)

Men in the uk are killed for various reasons but mostly gangs and crime.

Women (females) are killed mostly because they are female.

The one thing most of the murderers have in common is their sex.

Male patterns of offending are the same regardless of their 'identity' and with 98% of all sex crimes being committed by penis owners and when the vast majority of the victims are female, it is surely no great fucking mystery why females need sex separated spaces and services when they are at their most vulnerable?!!

Men kill more women because they are stronger. Talking of biological facts , that is one
Yes, and transwomen are male which is also a biological fact and therefore they are also stronger than most women.

Sorry, rooty, but that is a nasty tactic. No one is cutting children out of a social life or sports, but you berate us as if we are, especially with the comment that they are someone's child too. It is specifically designed to make us feel ashamed and point fingers of being nast at us and it one of the most vile tactics used by transactivists. Among others are the 'are you scared of lesbians too', 'not wanting to share with transwomen is like white women not wanting to share toilets with black women' and one I see a lot lately: 'feminists object to transgender female athletes in womens sports'.

We don't object or have issues with lesbians or black women or boys taking part in social activities, we have issues with male human beings demanding access where they are not meant to be.

Even though in the case of the male child, I would strongly suspect the parent to be pushing for inclusion.

@DialSquare

We're been through all the answers that would be fair for everyone but that's not good enough for Rooty. She says she doesn't only care about the Trans view in this bit her post show she does. I printed out that many women will not be able to use single sex spaces if they become mixed sex so 3rd spaces should be an option. All Rooty cared about was what if the Trans people didn't want to use the 3rd space.

Eh?

Rooty in this post has also cared about men, children and women. I don't only care about trans how utterly bizarre. I care aboit a solution for all not some. Nobody has yet suggested anything fair to anyone unless I missed it.
I think asking what would happen if they didn't want to use it was a fair question personally.

@RootyT00t

Whether it's right or not or wrong, I go back to what I said at the start of this.

My thoughts come from really feeling for these people.

They spend their childhood not fitting in. I can't imagine how it must feel to feel you aren't the right gender. In the wrong body if you will. They have to play on what they feel is the wrong team, they can't enter things they feel thry could. They transition physically or emotionally.

They go to work. Someone doesn't want them (not aimed at PP, aimed at many of these examples ). They cant get changed at work or socially. They have to say watch hideous stereotypes and read comments about them just being wrong and they should just stop. They're not how they were born but thyr not their Identity either.

Maybe I am naive, lacking critical skills. But I do feel that.

You might as well be writing about women of 1920s. So learn the lesson from there while you are at it.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/victimfocusblog.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/amp/

Article on whataboutary

Rooty what is a woman, please?

And how can you tell which transwomen are real transwomen and aren't faking and which are really men?

Transwoman being a biologically born male who transitions, physically or emotionally, into being a female

WTF. Emotionally female??? What does that even mean?
A male cannot become female.