AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 3

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

I'm not surprised you find it staggering. Like I said, not a critical thought so deflect to try to tell yourself you're being kind and I'm not. I actually think that people like you are causing more harm to trans people than any of us are.

@BarbaraofKent

If a Christian believes in God, and it is really important to them, then do I have to go along with it and say 'yes I believe in God too' so as not to offend or upset them?

You aren’t writing a true analogy. you have to go to their church, accept their religion and practice every single day as per their beliefs. Otherwise, you are a bigot.

@BarbaraofKent

Transwomen do not want to be in a woman's changing room (whatever people would have you believe) because they want to have a vagina. They want to be in the changing room because they feel , rightly or wrongly, that they are a woman. Some of them , granted the minority, have changed.

I've asked you these questions several times but I'll try again.

What do you mean when you say 'transwoman'?

At what objective point does a male who identities as female 'become a woman' and therefore have the right to access things meant for women?

How are women supposed to tell the difference between genuine transwomen and men who are taking advantage of a loophole?

Why do women have to put aside their discomfort to validate a male's delusions (and it is a delusions because you cannot change sex)?

I missed some of these.

Transwoman being a biologically born male who transitions, physically or emotionally, into being a female.

Pass to your second point - I don't have the answers either.

Third point - again, I don't have the answers but using my "critical thought" I've been accused of lacking, I imagine the amount of men transitioning to be woman so they can access a shower or changing room is tiny. But I can't say that, because all men will go to any lengths to violate woman, that was said upthread.

Bottom one - it's not a male's delusions. I'm intrigued to know about male feelings on transmen entering their changing rooms. But their feelings don't matter, don't they not.

@DialSquare

I'm not surprised you find it staggering. Like I said, not a critical thought so deflect to try to tell yourself you're being kind and I'm not. I actually think that people like you are causing more harm to trans people than any of us are.

I won't be engaging with you further after your final sentence.

I've never once said you're kind and I'm not, you're the one getting personal and abusive here.

@KeepWashingThoseHands

You can’t trample the rights of one group to assert another’s.

Quite.

...unless you trample the rights of trans women to assert women's. That's fine.

@BarbaraofKent apples and oranges as my pal up there would say.

When someone tells me they're a trans women, I don't say oh yes me too.

When someone tells me they're a Christian , I may tell them I'm personally agnostic, but I don't say NO YOU'RE NOT.

But not being accepted and treat like a piece of shit and spoken about in the manner they are would certainly spiral them into mental health issues (which I can imagine they have experienced at some point living in a world that doesn't accept them, totally different to transgender being a mental health issue).

What do you mean by 'accepted'? Why do I have to 'accept them' in female spaces when they are objectively not female?

A few years ago, I had some regular, unpleasant medical treatment on an open ward. One of the nurses there was a transwoman and she was the best nurse there - she was caring and kind and talked me through the whole thing.

However, if I was having an intimate procedure such as a smear test or similar then I would not have wanted that nurse performing it, because that nurse was very obviously male and I want to have female HCPs carrying out intimidate procedures such as smear tests. Should I have the right to say no to that nurse on the basis that they are male, even if they identify as female?

...unless you trample the rights of trans women to assert women's. That's fine.
I thought it was the other way around: are women demanding access to trans women spaces?

Not personal or abusive. You said I was offensive. I can take it.

So we are suloosed to fight men's fights too?

If they have a problem with transmen in their spaces they can sort it. Some of us re busy trying to fight for womens spaces.
We are not everyone's mother.
We aren't here ti do everyone else's thinking fir them . Nor will we keep putting everyone else alive our own safety.

Men need to sort themselves out.

@DialSquare

Not personal or abusive. You said I was offensive. I can take it.

I said your analogy was offensive. I think it is. Just an opinion.

You said I don't have a critical thought and I'm harming trans people. that's pretty personal.

@Whatwouldscullydo

So we are suloosed to fight men's fights too?

If they have a problem with transmen in their spaces they can sort it. Some of us re busy trying to fight for womens spaces.
We are not everyone's mother.
We aren't here ti do everyone else's thinking fir them . Nor will we keep putting everyone else alive our own safety.

Men need to sort themselves out.

No... we could fight the trans and men/women loophole/issue/ whatever as a collective.

Imagine.

Incidentally, imagine that reversed? Imagine during the me too campaign that all the men publicly said pfttt, women can sort themselves out. We die at 82 a week.

Would that be OK?

And I think your stance is more harmful to trans people. Just an opinion.

@DialSquare

And I think your stance is more harmful to trans people. Just an opinion.

But that's slightly more offensive than an analogy, isn't it.

@Thewithesarehere

...unless you trample the rights of trans women to assert women's. That's fine. I thought it was the other way around: are women demanding access to trans women spaces?

No, but they are demanding to tell trans women who and what they are.

In your opinion.

[quote RootyT00t]@BarbaraofKent apples and oranges as my pal up there would say.

When someone tells me they're a trans women, I don't say oh yes me too.

When someone tells me they're a Christian , I may tell them I'm personally agnostic, but I don't say NO YOU'RE NOT.[/quote]
But when women are being told that they must 'accept' transwomen in their spaces, they are being told that they must believe that humans can change sex, that men can become women, that transwomen are actually women. That is the basis, the belief system, upon which women would accept transwomen into their spaces.

'Transwomen are women' is purely a belief statement in the same way that 'God exists' is. It has no basis in reality.

No, but they are demanding to tell trans women who and what they are

And so are you - can't you see your hypocrisy? You stated on the last thread you don't accept that everyone who says they're a transwoman is genuine.

I accept transwomen as transwomen I don't accept them as women
I accept Christians as Christians , I don't pretend to remember that they don't eat pork

@BarbaraofKent

But not being accepted and treat like a piece of shit and spoken about in the manner they are would certainly spiral them into mental health issues (which I can imagine they have experienced at some point living in a world that doesn't accept them, totally different to transgender being a mental health issue).

What do you mean by 'accepted'? Why do I have to 'accept them' in female spaces when they are objectively not female?

A few years ago, I had some regular, unpleasant medical treatment on an open ward. One of the nurses there was a transwoman and she was the best nurse there - she was caring and kind and talked me through the whole thing.

However, if I was having an intimate procedure such as a smear test or similar then I would not have wanted that nurse performing it, because that nurse was very obviously male and I want to have female HCPs carrying out intimidate procedures such as smear tests. Should I have the right to say no to that nurse on the basis that they are male, even if they identify as female?

I mean this genuinely. What about her do you not want?

As for the other comment by accept I mean accept them for who they are

@RootyT00t
I honestly don’t care what anyone wants to do with their life, so long as it doesn’t affect my or my family’s lives.
I am not ready to see my DC compete with a male-bodied person on a cricket pitch, I don’t want to stay in dark about a male-born person staying in their tent without me knowing about it, and I absolutely don’t want any of their scholarships to go to a boy who feels he is a girl half the week.

@Impatiens

No, but they are demanding to tell trans women who and what they are

And so are you - can't you see your hypocrisy? You stated on the last thread you don't accept that everyone who says they're a transwoman is genuine.

There's a mark of difference between me agreeing that this person on the internet is clearly out to cause trouble and wanting to stand in a changing room and dictate who can come in.

i mean this genuinely. What about her do you not want?
Now you are invading personal space. Why is this your business?

You mean accept for who they say they are , not fit what they actually are ?

[quote Thewithesarehere]@RootyT00t
I honestly don’t care what anyone wants to do with their life, so long as it doesn’t affect my or my family’s lives.
I am not ready to see my DC compete with a male-bodied person on a cricket pitch, I don’t want to stay in dark about a male-born person staying in their tent without me knowing about it, and I absolutely don’t want any of their scholarships to go to a boy who feels he is a girl half the week.[/quote]
What's the answer in there scenarios? Sorry wee boy, you can't play or have a scholarship or stay with anyone else because you are transgender.

He is someones child too.