AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 3

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

And as gender is a social construct, that's what we are really talking about here.

Wait. Hold on a sec.

We separate these spaces based on sex, not gender. We have male and female changing rooms because males and females have different bodies, differently sexed bodies. Not because of a ‘social construct’. Don’t we?

@Whatwouldscullydo

I think you've covered a few actually

Such as men are what they say they are and women are what men say are. So they are women if they say they are and women don't get to define what a woman is

Women are responsible for what men do ? ( Well u said they spiral out of control mentally if we don't let some males them i
the changing room)

You accused women of misandry r recognising male behaviour patterns...that's another right there

No I didn't say they spiral out of control if we don't let them use a changing room.

Your first argument doesn't stand up because I'd make exactly the same argument for trans men.

I did accuse a woman of misandry when she was claiming it didn't exist but I'm not sure how that makes me a misogynistic.

@Typesofcatalogue

And as gender is a social construct, that's what we are really talking about here.

Wait. Hold on a sec.

We separate these spaces based on sex, not gender. We have male and female changing rooms because males and females have different bodies, differently sexed bodies. Not because of a ‘social construct’. Don’t we?

Yes. But on that logic, PPs would let in physically transitioned. They're saying no to that.

Because you cant change sex.

Transition is externally altering your body.
.doesn't change your sex and facilities are sex segregated

I think I'll accept defeat here. I came back in good faith and I have genuinely learned quite a lot but we are back into picking out random sentences and changing what I said and/or quoting things I've explainde many times over so that other posters can come and join (even openly saying they are doing so for the lurkers to join in too!)

It's been thought provoking, but (and I mean this genuinely) I sense a pile on and for what its worth for all that i disagree with many of you its a bloody good thread, so let's keep it at that way.

If I thought that , id say they should be allowed in and sod what you think.

Well in my opinion that is pretty much what you are saying. If the 3rd option is not good enough there's nothing anyone can do. Single sex spaces should remain just that. Wringing your hands and saying there isn't an answer means nothing. We are saying no.

It is. Not possible to actually physically transition

Sex reassignment surgery hello you look more like the other sex but you don't actually change sex

Good grief do you really think transwomen can get pregnant ?

@RootyT00t
You used the word ‘winning out’. I literally quoted you in my post. How is anyone making up stuff against you?

Current vote

Alternative reality ain't it? Nothing to do with facts

Is the plan for various posters to keep asking me th same questions while ignoring my previous responses until I give up? I've answered both of those several times.

Sorry I only came to it right near the end of the second thread, so I didn't see it.

Still not sure what you mean by the word woman, that's all.

Also I think you would count as a transphobe in trans ally world. You say transwomen are women, but you exclude those transwomen who you decide aren't women (the ones who instruct us that their penises and beards are here to stay and we still have to acknowledge them as women - IE the majority).

Here's the thing, you can spend masses of energy trying to embrace the cognitive dissonance of knowing what a woman is but needing to not know it; and you would still be an outcast, chased from the trans ally village with pitchforks, because at a certain point your common sense and hold on reality kicks in and you say "hang on a mo, no, that's where the boundary is".

You really haven't learned that there is no boundary. You as a woman have no right to set a boundary. You would be monstered as viciously as we are, for our disobedience in refusing to do the cognitive dissonance in the first place.

Your kindness won't save you. You either have to submit unconditionally or you are a transphobe. That's how it works.

I wouldn't go near Twitter

Maybe you should. It's truely a fucking eye opener the things that are allowed to be said to women by men who hide behind trans ideology.

Can you please explain how someone can be 'emotionally' a woman? Have you any idea, not only of how offensive that is, but how you have just reduced being a women to 'feelings'
Sexist bullshit.
You mention the suicide rates of men compared to women. This is mostly due to men being told they are only allowed one set of emotions. Not to talk. Be strong. Not 'emotional' like women.
You are feeding those same repressive stereotypes!
How can you not see this? You are clearly smart enough to.

I'm intrigued to know about male feelings on transmen entering their changing rooms. But their feelings don't matter, don't they not

If you actually did some research you'd find that most men would like to keep their single sex spaces too.
The difference is than transmen are no threat to men. As you pointed out yourself, men are stronger so the smaller, weaker, penis free female in their space makes little difference to them.

They spend their childhood not fitting in. I can't imagine how it must feel to feel you aren't the right gender. In the wrong body if you will

So how do you explain all the girls who have no issue with their sexed body at all until puberty?
How do you help those who are using it as escape from sexual abuse not because they think they are the opposite sex?
Autistic kids?

Why are kids told that wearing certain clothes or hairstyles are fine instead of telling them they must choose a 'gender'

Are you also aware that schools have been told they must not teach the harmful 'born in the wrong body' bullshit.

These kids have perfectly healthy bodies.
How can you say it isn't a mental health issue?
If a child cuts themselves it's self harm. Yet if a child wants their breasts removed it's perfectly acceptable?
Its fucking insane.

The men really

@Whatsnewpussyhat

I wouldn't go near Twitter

Maybe you should. It's truely a fucking eye opener the things that are allowed to be said to women by men who hide behind trans ideology.

Can you please explain how someone can be 'emotionally' a woman? Have you any idea, not only of how offensive that is, but how you have just reduced being a women to 'feelings'
Sexist bullshit.
You mention the suicide rates of men compared to women. This is mostly due to men being told they are only allowed one set of emotions. Not to talk. Be strong. Not 'emotional' like women.
You are feeding those same repressive stereotypes!
How can you not see this? You are clearly smart enough to.

I'm intrigued to know about male feelings on transmen entering their changing rooms. But their feelings don't matter, don't they not

If you actually did some research you'd find that most men would like to keep their single sex spaces too.
The difference is than transmen are no threat to men. As you pointed out yourself, men are stronger so the smaller, weaker, penis free female in their space makes little difference to them.

They spend their childhood not fitting in. I can't imagine how it must feel to feel you aren't the right gender. In the wrong body if you will

So how do you explain all the girls who have no issue with their sexed body at all until puberty?
How do you help those who are using it as escape from sexual abuse not because they think they are the opposite sex?
Autistic kids?

Why are kids told that wearing certain clothes or hairstyles are fine instead of telling them they must choose a 'gender'

Are you also aware that schools have been told they must not teach the harmful 'born in the wrong body' bullshit.

These kids have perfectly healthy bodies.
How can you say it isn't a mental health issue?
If a child cuts themselves it's self harm. Yet if a child wants their breasts removed it's perfectly acceptable?
Its fucking insane.

The men really

The only thing I will hang about to clarify there since you called me fucking offensive is that I meant emotionally as in not physically. As in, I've already been lectured at that their physicality doesn't change most times. So I meant emotionally as in how they feel has changed whether that's female to male or make to female.

You really haven't learned that there is no boundary. You as a woman have no right to set a boundary. You would be monstered as viciously as we are, for our disobedience in refusing to do the cognitive dissonance in the first place.

Your kindness won't save you. You either have to submit unconditionally or you are a transphobe. That's how it works.

So true.

@RootyT00t I've just come back to this discussion. I think the prolonged conversation is really valuable. But may I ask you why, when you tell us you are female, you listen to all of the arguments that females are making, and still your response is not to hear them. Like I said to you previously, women have historically had the backs of trans women when a macho society wouldn't have. It is the blatant disregard for women by ideologues that is the problem. Why are you holding on to that? It is almost an internalized misogyny.

@Impatiens

You really haven't learned that there is no boundary. You as a woman have no right to set a boundary. You would be monstered as viciously as we are, for our disobedience in refusing to do the cognitive dissonance in the first place.

Your kindness won't save you. You either have to submit unconditionally or you are a transphobe. That's how it works.

So true.

Agree

[quote JoodyBlue]@RootyT00t I've just come back to this discussion. I think the prolonged conversation is really valuable. But may I ask you why, when you tell us you are female, you listen to all of the arguments that females are making, and still your response is not to hear them. Like I said to you previously, women have historically had the backs of trans women when a macho society wouldn't have. It is the blatant disregard for women by ideologues that is the problem. Why are you holding on to that? It is almost an internalized misogyny.[/quote]
Because I don't value any more or less an opinion coming from a woman because it comes from a woman.

It's not misogyny. Id say exactly the same things if this was about trans men.

But I take your point 😘

The other thing to say, is for over 5 decades I have lived in societies with men and women happily supporting each other. The last decade has been the most devisive I have ever known. So many factions and intersections. It is post pubescent righteousness gone mad. How can we possibly live together with this level of intolerance towards experience and knowledge of how we got to where we are. Please pause, take stock, watch and wait. You are obviously bright. Be sharp enough to read the room. Parents raise kids. It is the natural order. The internet has reversed that, since every opinion online appears equally valid, regardless of merit. Sometimes experience tells. A women who has had a baby for example argues from a different place to one who hasn't, for so many reasons, too many to say.

@RootyT00t that's the answer. You haven't experienced how shit societies truly are to women. You know why? Because my generation fought for that for you.

[quote JoodyBlue]@RootyT00t that's the answer. You haven't experienced how shit societies truly are to women. You know why? Because my generation fought for that for you.[/quote]
Thank you for your last posts. I want you to know I a absolutely listening.

The only thing I will hang about to clarify there since you called me fucking offensive is that I meant emotionally as in not physically.
As in, I've already been lectured at that their physicality doesn't change most times. So I meant emotionally as in how they feel has changed whether that's female to male or make to female

I didn't call you offensive, I said saying a man can somehow emotionally become a woman is.
Their emotional wellbeing may change but it doesn't make those 'female' emotions because they belong to a male and it's not a good enough reason to allow Male access to female only spaces.

We are told those males you've been shown with beards and penises (like the delightful character telling us to accept his womanly beard, dick and testosterone) ARE women because they say they are.
Why should we call them women?
Should they be allowed in our spaces?
How have they become women emotionally?
How do we differentiate between them and other males?
Where is the line? Because it's all or nothing. Can't let some in without letting all in can you?

I am not bothered about anyone taking up any spaces they want so long as they don’t snatch what’s mine. It’s only fair that I keep what is mine.

@RootyT00t I'm about to go. I'm really glad to have been able to chat with you about this. Given a lot to these convos last couple of days. :)

You haven't experienced how shit societies truly are to women. You know why? Because my generation fought for that for you

I think that's one of the biggest problems. The younger generations don't have a fucking clue. They think their rights are safe because they've never known them not to be.
They live under the illusion they are seen as equal to men. Poland proves how fast those rights are taken away by men who want their power back.
It's what's happening on a global scale. They just can't see it yet.

I will keep fighting for my daughters, and everyone else's too and even you Rooty.