AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 3

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

@DialSquare

It is not offensive at all. Don't talk bollocks because you can't answer the question truthfully.

I wouldn't. Obviously.

But it's massively offensive.

So because I wouldn't tell an anorexic she's fat or feed an alcoholic alcohol, I have to tell trans women they are not women?

There is no comparison. Two are mental health conditions engaging in damaging and lethal behaviour, one is someone who has transitioned to the sex they believe they are. It's not comparable, and it is offensive.

You can't transition to a sex

It's not possible

@DialSquare
Is your solution that we just nip this in the bud and tell human beings that they are not women? Would that fix anything? Or would not being accepted and not feeling secure spiral them into more mental health, more hurt, more anger, but that's OK because they're not in the changing rooms.

Do you believe you can physically change sex?

When someone dies will they ve correctly gendered if someone dug up their skeleton and dna tested.

If you cant change sex then jts based on belief nor fact

You are so fucking insulting to suggest that a bit of lippy or a chopped off dick
Makes someone not a man and so must be woman

@Whatwouldscullydo

But the "tough shit, men feelz" stuff is what immediately sends me back there. It's not needed. There are ways to balance the two

Men have ruled the world and set the rules for centuries. They will be just fine . They are just fine. Believing women should be put at risk to make the men feel better about the way they have shat on women seems insane.

And right on cue.

Having ruled the world and set the rules for centuries doesn't stop the fact that the number of men a week killing themselves are not "just fine".

@midgedude

You are so fucking insulting to suggest that a bit of lippy or a chopped off dick Makes someone not a man and so must be woman

Me? I've never said that, or anything like it.

But any discussion of how we get over that (trying to close the divide between men and women, educate young men, explore male mental health (the astronomical suicide rate for men is never talked about half as much as it would be if it was for women) because any suggestion of that is met with, and I've seen this several times this week let alone my time on MN, "So women have to fix men now and make it better, boo poor menz".

Feminists, including feminists on MN, have had lots of discussions about toxic masculinity, where is stems from, stereotypes of men and women (the same stereotypes which are pushed by trans ideology as it happens) and how these harm males as well as females. But women still can't be expected to solve it all!

Whys that the fault if women wishing to keep themselves safe?

We should do what males what us to do so they don't kill themselves?

So because I wouldn't tell an anorexic she's fat or feed an alcoholic alcohol, I have to tell trans women they are not women?
You are again comparing apples with oranges.
Are anorexics or alcoholics trying to gain access to women only places and sports?
And to be fair, no matter what you say here, I am quite sure you will have a very big problem with alcoholics if they tried to steal YOUR wine in real life.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Do you believe you can physically change sex?

When someone dies will they ve correctly gendered if someone dug up their skeleton and dna tested.

If you cant change sex then jts based on belief nor fact

I believe you can identify as the opposite gender, yes.

And as gender is a social construct, that's what we are really talking about here.

Transwomen do not want to be in a woman's changing room (whatever people would have you believe) because they want to have a vagina. They want to be in the changing room because they feel , rightly or wrongly, that they are a woman. Some of them , granted the minority, have changed.

The fact it is based on belief not fact does not make it any easier for these transwomen and transmen to operate in a world that doesn't fucking accept them, and compares them to anorexics.

Is your solution that we just nip this in the bud and tell human beings that they are not women? Would that fix anything? Or would not being accepted and not feeling secure spiral them into more mental health, more hurt, more anger, but that's OK because they're not in the changing rooms.

Hang on, you just said transgender isn't a mental health issue. So why would me not believing that a man is actually a woman send them 'spiralling into more mental health'?

What do alcoholics have to do with it?
Anorexics believe they are fat when they are not. Trans people believe are the opposite sex when they are not. Totally comparable. Not offensive. But showing the difference in the way some people treat both categories. The same as you wouldn't entertain a while person claiming to be black.
Do you have a critical thought in your head?

But if someone believes something that isn't true then why do women have to validate that.? Why is it down to us to provide that validation ajd not them to come to terms with reality?

We aren't their mother

@Whatwouldscullydo

Whys that the fault if women wishing to keep themselves safe?

We should do what males what us to do so they don't kill themselves?

Did i say either of those things?

I was refuting the fact that men are "just fine " because they've been ruling the world for centuries.

@Whatwouldscullydo

But if someone believes something that isn't true then why do women have to validate that.? Why is it down to us to provide that validation ajd not them to come to terms with reality?

We aren't their mother

So you think that the thousands of people who are trans and go through what I can only imagine is a very painful experience should "come to terms with reality" , because it doesn't suit us to have them in our changing rooms.

Man wants man gets ... is that it?

@DialSquare

What do alcoholics have to do with it? Anorexics believe they are fat when they are not. Trans people believe are the opposite sex when they are not. Totally comparable. Not offensive. But showing the difference in the way some people treat both categories. The same as you wouldn't entertain a while person claiming to be black. Do you have a critical thought in your head?

Alcoholics believe they are fine and can cope with a drink (most of the time ) when they can't. Same kind of idea, isn't it. You wouldn't encourage them.

I find it staggering that you're asking me that when you compared trans to anorexics (or a white person claiming to be black).

@midgedude

Man wants man gets ... is that it?

No, in this case it's very much women wants women gets.

@BarbaraofKent

Is your solution that we just nip this in the bud and tell human beings that they are not women? Would that fix anything? Or would not being accepted and not feeling secure spiral them into more mental health, more hurt, more anger, but that's OK because they're not in the changing rooms.

Hang on, you just said transgender isn't a mental health issue. So why would me not believing that a man is actually a woman send them 'spiralling into more mental health'?

It isn't.

But not being accepted and treat like a piece of shit and spoken about in the manner they are would certainly spiral them into mental health issues (which I can imagine they have experienced at some point living in a world that doesn't accept them, totally different to transgender being a mental health issue).

Why is it down tonus..be trabs. Be whatever but that's something they did and we can't he expected to open up our wonen only spaces to males to validate someone else choices in life.

If a Christian believes in God, and it is really important to them, then do I have to go along with it and say 'yes I believe in God too' so as not to offend or upset them?

So you think that the thousands of people who are trans and go through what I can only imagine is a very painful experience should "come to terms with reality" , because it doesn't suit us to have them in our changing rooms.

I would quite like to see @RootyT00t give her wine to alcoholics, give her house to homeless and live a happily ever after.

You can’t trample the rights of one group to assert another’s.