AIBU to think DD’s taken this a step too far?

[usernamenotavailible]

DH’s birthday is coming up. DD16 just sent me a screenshot of a t-shirt she’s bought him (picture attached). DD is very PC and is big on inclusion, DH is very much not. Won’t add my personal views as I don’t want to influence anyone else, but I’m somewhere in between. AIBU to think DD shouldn’t have bought this and should I do anything?

'That's nice, dear'.

Loving the "how immature" comments. The daughter is 15years old. She is immature.😂

Apart from anything else, it’s just a really facile slogan. Even those of us on the GC side of the debate are well aware that trans people exist; that is not in question. The discussion is quite a lot more nuanced than that.

It’s such a waste of money that if she gets pocket money, I’d be discussing with her whether the was getting too much from us, to be able to afford to waste money on stupid point scoring

It's orange, no-one looks good in orange so definitely a shit present.

Forcing a political point on someone as their birthday present is equally shit.

Get her a "woman (noun) adult human female" t-shirt for her birthday?

Seriously though, a "thank you" followed up by putting it at the bottom of his t-shirt drawer never to be seen again should suffice.

She's a teen. She's angling for a reaction. Don't give it to her.

If the OP’s dd was challenging DH over perhaps being racist this thread would have gone in a completely different direction. Probably because most of the pp’s on this post could do with this T-shirt themselves. And then they are so shocked when MN is called transphobic

I imagine that, if white people were demanding to be recognised as black, and then aggressively insisting that all facilities and services for black people were opened to them, the MN reaction would be pretty negative.

Adding to the above, the T shirt is looking for a reaction and the best thing to do is not to give one. But thinking through the caption on that tee shirt further, it's coming from the oft-stated premise that the whole existence of trans people is being denied.

I've never seen one person trying to make that claim. The issue of the demarcation of sex and gender comes from the reasonable standpoint that if women can't name what we are, we can't fight our oppression. A denial that it's physically impossible to become the opposite sex - any more than transubstantiation is physically possible - is hardly a disclaimer that trans people don't exist (albeit the 'umbrella' has been cast substantially wider in recent years). Of course they do; that has never been in dispute.

I could go to work wearing that t-shirt with no problem at all. If I wore one proclaiming ADULT HUMAN FEMALE, I could be fired, the local Costa probably wouldn't serve me, and the 'Feminist' Library would likely burn me at the stake. 'Woman' is becoming like a dirty word. 'Adult Human Female' is definitely 'phrase non-grata'. Whose existence is emphatically being denied here? First clue: it's not trans people.

This form of activism has DARVO down to a fine art. Not to mention projection.

waterlego agree - pointless content no matter what your gc standpoint might be.

Well I just showed my 16 year old and she said “what a great idea”, which kind of proves how a 16 year olds brain works? Once I explained to her that it wasn’t a good idea to gift someone this on their birthday she kind of agreed with me. OP, my dd says your dd should wear the shirt instead as she’s free to wear and express her views but she shouldn’t gift it to someone that doesn’t share her views.

Well it's a bit like him buying her an Adult Human Female t shirt for her birthday isn't it.

Would she appreciate that? Or would she feel that it's a bit shit to not buy someone a gift they'd actually quite like?

I'd ask her if this is the tone she wants to set for birthdays and gifts in the future?

"Loving the "how immature" comments. The daughter is 15years old. She is immature."

I teach 16 year olds and there is a marked difference in most of them around this age. Yes, they are still immature, but most are far from the 'winding their parents up to get a reaction' stage.

An 'Adult Human Female' t-shirt wouldn't work because she isn't an adult. I reckon though that there are plenty of people who consider themselves inclusionary but happily acknowledge that only adult human females are women. I don't agree that transwomen are women but that doesn't mean I have to be a dick about it, they're still human.

As I said several pages ago, my DC bought me something for my birthday that they knew I didn't want. Setting aside the rights and wrongs of the sentiment expressed, DD needs to consider how she would feel if her dad purposely bought her a birthday present he knew she'd dislike. How would she feel?

Well there is a difference between being un-PC and being actively anti-trans. If it’s just that he makes the odd slightly off colour joke then he won’t have a problem with this. If he is anti trans then he might not find this funny. But that is a bigger discussion of prejudice and I can see why your daughter might be angry and disappointed with him.

@borntohula

An 'Adult Human Female' t-shirt wouldn't work because she isn't an adult. I reckon though that there are plenty of people who consider themselves inclusionary but happily acknowledge that only adult human females are women. I don't agree that transwomen are women but that doesn't mean I have to be a dick about it, they're still human.

I've read that 3 times and I'm still

Also to those people making comments about Transwomen not being biologically female sexed - I don’t think anyone is denying that. The T-shirt says ‘some people are trans’, not ‘transpeople are female sexed’

If he is anti trans then he might not find this funny.

But what would count as "anti trans" to you (and more importantly, the daughter)?

Is it that he is gender critical?

OR

is that he thinks trans people should be persecuted and oppressed?

There is a world of a difference between the two views.

I reckon though that there are plenty of people who consider themselves inclusionary but happily acknowledge that only adult human females are women. I don't agree that transwomen are women but that doesn't mean I have to be a dick about it, they're still human.

Who’s being a dick about it?

Just let them get on with it.

She knows it's not his thing!

I love t-shirts like this - but you need to be able to wear them.

If your hubby looks like Dwayne Johnson then tell her to keep it, if he looks like Boris Johnson maybe some socks would be better!

I do love her generation but at that age they don’t get that what they like may be different to what someone else will like - I remember getting my dad a CD from someone who he’d never listen to but because I liked it I thought he would too once he listened to it.

I'd remind her about the problem with fast fashion and unwanted purchases. Every young person I know is trying hard not to buy stuff that won't be worn. Suggest she's a bit out of step!

Actually I Like your response @Tavannach.....

She's 16. He can put it at the back of the wardrobe and bring it out to embarrass her on her 30th.

[quote ParadiseIsland]@Mmn654123, I think that is for another thread entirely.

People are allowed their opinion. (You have yours, I have mine and I suspect they aren’t actually that far from each other).

My dcs are similar age. I am not always agreeing with them but I would always be open to listen to their idea and respect them. That’s not what I heard from the OP’s posts re her DH attitude towards his dd views.[/quote]
Indeed. But op is asking for advice and IMO someone else’s birthday is not the time to demand to be listened to or challenge their views. It’s simply rude.

Their wider relationship isn’t the issue at hand.