AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 2

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

But your last paragraph suggests you think that women in a swimming pool or gym shower are at risk of sexual abuse from a man who enters the showers. For people who talk about evidence, I've yet to see any of this.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

You would know you are a woman because you you have the physical characteristics of a woman (literally, biologically), you are registered as a woman, the ID documents

How can a male be biologically a women when every single cell in their body, whatever it's outward appearance, contains only Male DNA?
Hair, make up, clothes etc do not make someone a woman.

Are you denying that trans people were beaten up and killed just for being trans, and still are?

Yes, I do deny that.

They are not beaten up and killed for being trans, they are beaten up and killed (where that happens) for not performing masculinity correctly.

In the UK, trans people are the safest demographic - less likely to be murdered than either men or women. If you are a transwoman in the UK, you were more likely to murder someone in the last decade, than be murdered yourself.

Women are regularly raped and murdered just for being women. Haven't you noticed?

All of the above.

The likelihood is the same as any man.

@Thewithesarehere

But in the real world, Barbara (and I still love this), I don't live my life on statistics. I live it on life experience. We all do.

I wish things were that simple @RootyT00t.

Please point out just ONE aspect of your life and I will show you how you live in a world firmly built on statistics.

But I've already proved I don't.

I trust men on the whole more than women.

That's breaking the norm, and it's based on MY life.

It's not hard to understand. I just disagree.
So you disagree with the point that women have the right to feel safe? Trans women can have their own space to feel safe. Why should women give theirs?

Not what I said.

Can you clarify what meant then?

Women need to be safe, Trans people need to be safe

It’s the presence of biological Males no matter how they present that makes a space unsafe

Third spaces are be the obvious answer IF it’s really about safety

Why do you think gay people were killed and beaten up in the first place?

Male gay people were beaten up for exactly the same reason male transpeople are beaten up - because they are not performing masculinity in the way the violent men who beat them up, felt they should.

Female gay people were beaten up because they were not performing their feminine duty of centring men. IE not performing femininity in the correctly prescribed manner.

Homophobia is intimately connected to misogyny.

But I've already proved I don't.

I trust men on the whole more than women.

That's breaking the norm, and it's based on MY life.

Right, that's good for you.

Why do you think we have certain single sex facilities in our society? Why are males and female segregated in certain situations where people may be vulnerable?

@ScreamingBeans

Are you denying that trans people were beaten up and killed just for being trans, and still are?

Yes, I do deny that.

They are not beaten up and killed for being trans, they are beaten up and killed (where that happens) for not performing masculinity correctly.

In the UK, trans people are the safest demographic - less likely to be murdered than either men or women. If you are a transwoman in the UK, you were more likely to murder someone in the last decade, than be murdered yourself.

Women are regularly raped and murdered just for being women. Haven't you noticed?

"where that happens" - needed? Or are we just not as arsed because they're a minority and once again who cares?

The UK statistic is a ridiculous one. If you are a transwoman, according to you lot you are still a man, so of course you're less likely to be murdered! (or be a murderer, given that killers predominantely male).

They are not the 'safest' demographic.

Course I have. But I'm not sure what that has to do with trans people being in changing rooms.

Standing at a whopping 91%!
Starting thread 3.

Me - This makes no sense - how on earth are you going to decide which are the genuine transwomen?

@RootyT00t - Transwomen, the human beings living their life as opposed to muppets on the internet writing stupid things designed to inflame. in the same way I decide who is a pleasant male and who is an arsehole male based on how they behave.

Again - makes no sense. The muppets on the internet writing inflammatory, misogynist posts are also living their life as transwomen. You can't possibly decide who is and who isn't a 'genuine' transwomen without being falling foul of your own definition of transphobia!

@BarbaraofKent

But I've already proved I don't.

I trust men on the whole more than women.

That's breaking the norm, and it's based on MY life.

Right, that's good for you.

Why do you think we have certain single sex facilities in our society? Why are males and female segregated in certain situations where people may be vulnerable?

Not really, it's based on negative experiences with women, but thanks for that.

I understand your second point, and I agree with you.

That's completely irrelevant to the fact that you said we live our life by statistics. We live our life by how we feel (granted, sometimes informed by statistics, sometimes informed by experience).

I trust men on the whole more than women.

It doesn't surprise me to hear this and I've heard it before many times from people making your arguments, but it's not what most people think. I'm sure you must have personal reasons, but most women do not automatically trust strange men more than women. And this isn't irrational, as males commit most sexual violence, and violence in general.

That's breaking the norm, and it's based on MY life.
I hate to break it to you @RootyT00t but you are not the only female in the world. Statistics don’t work like this.

@Impatiens

Me - This makes no sense - how on earth are you going to decide which are the genuine transwomen?

@RootyT00t - Transwomen, the human beings living their life as opposed to muppets on the internet writing stupid things designed to inflame. in the same way I decide who is a pleasant male and who is an arsehole male based on how they behave.

Again - makes no sense. The muppets on the internet writing inflammatory, misogynist posts are also living their life as transwomen. You can't possibly decide who is and who isn't a 'genuine' transwomen without being falling foul of your own definition of transphobia!

Of course I can.

Anybody writing I have a dick and a beard so fuck you is not setting out to be accepted, are they, that's not their main motive.

I've never once said that every single transwomen for all of time is safe, if you will. But you can say that about any group in society.

"where that happens" - needed? Or are we just not as arsed because they're a minority and once again who cares?

It's very rare that it happens in the UK. The USA is much more homophobic and Brazil in particular, where many transwomen are engaged in the very dangerous and violent profession of prostitution, is where many of the most extreme stats come from.

By "people" I meant women. This idea that most people don't want single sex spaces is an outlier one. Men too, the dynamic isn't the same but I think they deserve male only spaces when they are undressing too.

@Thewithesarehere

That's breaking the norm, and it's based on MY life. I hate to break it to you *@RootyT00t* but you are not the only female in the world. Statistics don’t work like this.

No I'm not, I know that.

If I thought I was the only female in the world, I'd base my opinions on men, women and whoever I like based on what I think (ie the I don't think transwomen are women therefore they are not).

JUst because I personally base my life decisions on my own experiences and not statistics doesn't mean I think I'm the only perosn in the world. If anything, it means the opposite.

If you are a transwoman, according to you lot you are still a man

It's a biological fact not a matter of opinion.

Transgender murder rates:

medium.com/athena-talks/trans-murder-rates-the-data-120b60b19cb4

Anybody writing I have a dick and a beard so fuck you is not setting out to be accepted, are they, that's not their main motive.

You've hit upon a problem with transgender identity politics.

@ScreamingBeans

"where that happens" - needed? Or are we just not as arsed because they're a minority and once again who cares?

It's very rare that it happens in the UK. The USA is much more homophobic and Brazil in particular, where many transwomen are engaged in the very dangerous and violent profession of prostitution, is where many of the most extreme stats come from.

Are we including the stats for prostitutes in this country in our "women are raped and murdered all the time"?