AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 2

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

Rooty
I have no idea of your racial mix
BUT
the TRA impact is primarily driven by white men
and many of the TRAs have zilch awareness of the non secular world

luckily, race is a human construct and anybody can be any race
sex on the other hnd

rooty

I used to think a little like you.

In fact I went out of my way to try and prove the point that not all men were jerks. How men can actually be trusted etc

It didn't end well. I found out the hard way.

98% of sexual offences are perpetrated by men. That's a fact.

Humans can't change sex. That's another fact.

I like to deal in facts.

@ScreamingBeans

Also there is no such thing as misandry. There is no equivalent of misogyny.

Misogyny isn't just some bloke somewhere hating women. It's a whole societal structure which has actually created that hate and sustains and underpins the hate. Over centuries the hatred was bolstered and supported by all the institutions and laws legitimising and validating that hate and in some cases, actually requiring the hate as your social and religious duty.

Misandry, otoh, is just some powerless woman somewhere hating a man. There is no societal underpinning and reinforcing of that hatred.

There's just no comparison.

There is no societal underpinning and reinforcing of that hatred.

I don't agree, Screaming. Saying there is no such thing as misandry implies that it's all one way, which is sexist in itself. I'm not saying there's a comparison, given your first point, but to deny it completely once again puts men second.

Notice how even in your example, the woman is powerless. She is forced to hate the man because someone's taken everything away from her. Women can, and do abuse men. Not as 'regularly', as everyone likes to point out, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Which funnily enough , all of this schools of thoughts do.

Misogyny isn't just some bloke somewhere hating women. It's a whole societal structure which has actually created that hate and sustains and underpins the hate. Over centuries the hatred was bolstered and supported by all the institutions and laws legitimising and validating that hate and in some cases, actually requiring the hate as your social and religious duty.

This is the problem with a lack of class analysis. Crying "Misandry" is basically saying the same as when people say there is racism towards white people. There are individual bad actions towards men from women and from BAME people towards white people, but it's not structural in nature, like it is with racism against black people, for instance.

just find that thought process a bit ....odd

Really? You don't find the idea of getting your kit off in front of your male colleagues a bit dismaying and embarrassing?

Is this because you are an exhibitionist with a perfect body or just very unusual?

I don't know one woman who would willingly get naked in front of a man she's not sleeping with unless he's her doctor.

When I was young I lived in Germany and we did get nekkid all the time, but that's culturally not really done in England unless you're a naturist.

@Whatwouldscullydo

rooty

I used to think a little like you.

In fact I went out of my way to try and prove the point that not all men were jerks. How men can actually be trusted etc

It didn't end well. I found out the hard way.

@ScreamingBeans, case in point that misandry is pinned in society.

As a young woman I've been taught relentlessly that I am naive and will find out bla bla.

I've been an abuse victim. I've been through hell at the hands of a man.

Doesn't mean that I've now decided all men are jerks.

but to deny it completely once again puts men second.

Men aren't second, when they have most of the societal power

@Thewithesarehere

It's not about women and girls second and make feelings. It's about them being equal. *@RootyT00t* You said this ^. I want to see the evidence that says ‘men and women are equal and we can bring down all the wall as that separate them from each other’.

Do you have any evidence that supports this?

I am posting again for @RootyT00t. Please reply to my question (quoted above).

Doesn't mean that I've now decided all men are jerks.

Me neither. I've talked about some of the lovely men in my life. You seem to be projecting your image of gender critical feminist women onto us.

Notice how even in your example, the woman is powerless. She is forced to hate the man because someone's taken everything away from her.

By powerless there, I mean women who hate men don't have structural power.

Powerful women get power because they have male support. I very much doubt that Angela Merkel or Theresa May are man haters. Men wouldn't have supported them if they were.

That's what I mean by power. Real power, political power, power to push through an agenda.

I haven't decided all men are jerks either.

Just realised that there are certain situations its best not to put yourself in where they can be avoided and where safeguarding should be applied.

Decent men don't question why safeguarding protocols are there. They don't take them as a personal attack. They don't seek to dismantle them so they get to feel all.warm.and fuzzy about being part of the trusted few..

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Doesn't mean that I've now decided all men are jerks.

Me neither. I've talked about some of the lovely men in my life. You seem to be projecting your image of gender critical feminist women onto us.

That point wasn't directed at you so I have no idea why you've decided this.

Women can, and do abuse men. Not as 'regularly', as everyone likes to point out, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

We "like to point it out" because it's overwhelmingly one way.

Doesn't mean that I've now decided all men are jerks.

No one's urging you to decide that.

Most men aren't jerks.

We still don't want to undress in front of them or share hospital wards with them or have our intimate care needs performed by them when disabled.

@Whatwouldscullydo

I haven't decided all men are jerks either.

Just realised that there are certain situations its best not to put yourself in where they can be avoided and where safeguarding should be applied.

Decent men don't question why safeguarding protocols are there. They don't take them as a personal attack. They don't seek to dismantle them so they get to feel all.warm.and fuzzy about being part of the trusted few..

But the fact they just accept it (like trans people accepting what we've decided for them) is sad. Beyond sad.

Men just have to accept but women are applauded for not

And most men would say the same ..

Powerful women get power because they have male support.

This is the crux of the issue. Women generally only get societal power if men approve.

Accept safeguarding?

Who wouldn't accept safeguarding ?

@Thewithesarehere

I missed that but given what you have written is nothing like what I said, I can't.

@ScreamingBeans

just find that thought process a bit ....odd

Really? You don't find the idea of getting your kit off in front of your male colleagues a bit dismaying and embarrassing?

Is this because you are an exhibitionist with a perfect body or just very unusual?

I don't know one woman who would willingly get naked in front of a man she's not sleeping with unless he's her doctor.

When I was young I lived in Germany and we did get nekkid all the time, but that's culturally not really done in England unless you're a naturist.

I wouldn't take my clothes off in front of any of my colleagues, makeofemale or otherwise. In fact I don't take off my clothes in front of anyone except my partner. So it's the opposite. I wish I was a perfect body exhibitionist.

We still don't want to undress in front of them or share hospital wards with them or have our intimate care needs performed by them when disabled.

This.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Accept safeguarding?

Who wouldn't accept safeguarding ?

No.

Accepting that they are seen it in a certain way and that's just tough shit - quote unquote from upthread.

Yea it is beyond sad that 1 in 4 women will experience sexual abuse , that most estimates suggest 1 in 10 men are abusers

Whilst we sort that our, how can we protect those Most at risk? How can we support those harmed ?

.... go on...it's not hard

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Misogyny isn't just some bloke somewhere hating women. It's a whole societal structure which has actually created that hate and sustains and underpins the hate. Over centuries the hatred was bolstered and supported by all the institutions and laws legitimising and validating that hate and in some cases, actually requiring the hate as your social and religious duty.

This is the problem with a lack of class analysis. Crying "Misandry" is basically saying the same as when people say there is racism towards white people. There are individual bad actions towards men from women and from BAME people towards white people, but it's not structural in nature, like it is with racism against black people, for instance.

But it is.

You see many, many assumptions towards men from women. But it's socially acceptable.