AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 2

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

I wouldn't take my clothes off in front of any of my colleagues, makeofemale or otherwise.

That you don't see a difference between undressing in front of a man or a woman, as a woman, is your position. The vast majority of women and girls think otherwise.

But that's my opinion. Why should I change it because people tell me that's not what they think? Why does that make me an activisit?

I don't expect you to change your opinion. It's the continued repetition of your claim that transwomen are women, despite people telling you they reject the claim and despite your refusal to clarify it. That's what makes you an activist in my view.

@midgedude

Yea it is beyond sad that 1 in 4 women will experience sexual abuse , that most estimates suggest 1 in 10 men are abusers

Whilst we sort that our, how can we protect those Most at risk? How can we support those harmed ?

.... go on...it's not hard

Not by refusing to let transwomen into showers, anyway.

Well if men don't like being seen a certain way instead of getting angry at women for applying boundries and safeguarding
to protect themselvesajnd the children , maybe they should do something about the males causing the problems.

The reasons we need these single sex exemptions haven't changed.

I wouldn't take my clothes off in front of any of my colleagues, makeofemale or otherwise. In fact I don't take off my clothes in front of anyone except my partner. So it's the opposite. I wish I was a perfect body exhibitionist.

So why do you think female firefighters, police officers, nurses etc. - people who need to get changed into uniforms, safety gear etc., in order to carry out their jobs - should have to get undressed in front of their male colleagues, if those male colleagues identify as women?

Why do you think other women should do what you would find very uncomfortable?

@Impatiens

But that's my opinion. Why should I change it because people tell me that's not what they think? Why does that make me an activisit?

I don't expect you to change your opinion. It's the continued repetition of your claim that transwomen are women, despite people telling you they reject the claim and despite your refusal to clarify it. That's what makes you an activist in my view.

I haven't refused to clarify anything? (not this time round, anyway).

Right. Then you are also an activist, no?

Not by refusing to let transwomen into showers, anyway.

Refusing to let males into female showers.

@ScreamingBeans

I wouldn't take my clothes off in front of any of my colleagues, makeofemale or otherwise. In fact I don't take off my clothes in front of anyone except my partner. So it's the opposite. I wish I was a perfect body exhibitionist.

So why do you think female firefighters, police officers, nurses etc. - people who need to get changed into uniforms, safety gear etc., in order to carry out their jobs - should have to get undressed in front of their male colleagues, if those male colleagues identify as women?

Why do you think other women should do what you would find very uncomfortable?

I don't? That's an odd connection

My issue isn't with anybody identifying as a woman. I just don't like getting changed in front of people. It's a personal preference.

That's like saying why do you think I should put myself at risk every day in my work because you wouldn't like to. Our situations are completely and utterly different.

You have not clarified if I am a msn or a woman ? You have not clarified how I would know

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Not by refusing to let transwomen into showers, anyway.

Refusing to let males into female showers.

And that will bring the sexual abuse statistics down , will it?

*midgedude

Yea it is beyond sad that 1 in 4 women will experience sexual abuse , that most estimates suggest 1 in 10 men are abusers

Whilst we sort that our, how can we protect those Most at risk? How can we support those harmed ?

.... go on...it's not hard

Not by refusing to let transwomen into showers, anyway.*

Are we allowed to refuse to let men into showers where only women and girls are allowed?

If so, how do we tell the difference between transwomen and men, given that 80% of transwomen do not transition?

Not by refusing to let transwomen into showers, anyway.

How are women supposed to know who are genuine transwomen and who are men who are taking advantage of a loophole in order to gain access to women in a vulnerable state.

Do you believe that if a woman has a smear tests and requests a female, that she has the right to get an actual biological female? Or would a male who identifies as female be OK in that situation? Why?

Facts are tricky for people who rely on feelings

@midgedude

You have not clarified if I am a msn or a woman ? You have not clarified how I would know

I must have missed that.

How would you know you are a man or a woman? It's a bit of a double edged argument though isn't it because you are effectively trying to catch me out, or asking me what I think makes you a "woman" , which is not relevant here.

I am not, despite others insistence, an activist that ALL TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN. In fact, I don't think the person posted earlier is.

But, to deny that transwomen are women end of full stop that's it so there, no I don't agree with it.

But to play the game -
You would know you are a woman because you you have the physical characteristics of a woman (literally, biologically), you are registered as a woman, the ID documents that you are a woman.

Which of those does a transwoman not have?

It's not about women and girls second and make feelings. It's about them being equal

How is it equal when you are telling us the rights of the women and girls to their single sex changing rooms are should be overridden by an adult male's feelings.

They go in the single sex as they are uncomfortable in the mixed sex. Then you expect them to be ok with some males being in there making that space mixed sex? You said yourself you hated mixed sex changing rooms as a child yet you expect everyone else to say it's perfectly fine.

This is exactly putting male feelings and entitlement above female reality is it not? Conflicting rights?

My agenda certainly isn't to obliterate woman's rights, it's to protect the feelings of trans people. In the same way that when I'm routinely called a misogynist, because I don't always agree with everything women say about men.

But then,I'm (relatively) young and didn't know a world where women didn't have certain rights

Give it a few more years and we all may be living it again.
Look at Poland. 2021 and they ban abortions, instantly stripping away the reproductive rights of every woman and girl in the county. Men controlling women.
Do you think this is because of their 'gender' or their sex? Does this affect transwomen at all? No. Because they are male. Yet if transmen is impregnated they would be forced to continue with that pregnancy because the state will see them as the sex they are, not the identity they have chosen.

Again, why is it so important to protect a transpersons feelings over everyone else's?
You don't expect other people to ignore their own lived reality, sex, safety just so they don't upset someone.

These identities must be extremely fragile if they require constant validation.

Rooty the mental gymnastics you are doing at the moment must be giving you a headache. You know that what we are saying here makes sense but you hit a mental block because you can't/won't accept the fact that Transwomen are not women.
One of my colleagues was a Transwoman for a number of years. I worked with him as a man then a Transwoman woman then a man again. Do you seriously believe this person is a woman?

Which of those does a transwoman not have?

Um... The physical characteristics of a woman?!

My issue isn't with anybody identifying as a woman. I just don't like getting changed in front of people. It's a personal preference.

And that's your prerogative. I wouldn't wish to put you in a position where you felt humiliated, nervous or uncomfortable when vulnerable. Why do you think other women should be? Just for some naive idea of "progress"?

Equal
Yes please
Not measurable however if you can't define woman and men in a measurable way

Which of those does a transwoman not have?

You do know that most of them with their clothes off are fairly indistinguishable from any other male? A tiny percentage of them have genital surgery.

@BarbaraofKent

Not by refusing to let transwomen into showers, anyway.

How are women supposed to know who are genuine transwomen and who are men who are taking advantage of a loophole in order to gain access to women in a vulnerable state.

Do you believe that if a woman has a smear tests and requests a female, that she has the right to get an actual biological female? Or would a male who identifies as female be OK in that situation? Why?

In the same way if I need help I don't know who is a genuinely kind lady and who might take advantage of me (Women do go out and set traps for thie r murdering partner you know, it happens. Have you researched how Ian Watkins got access to all of the children he abused) Now the obvious response is BUT THATS NOT ALL WOMEN. No it isn't. It's a minority. It's also a minority of people who actively access showers to look at women (but this is a none argument as I've already said certainly where I'm from, most showers are perfectly visible from the pool and mixed). So what's the answer there? Separate pools for men women and trans?

It depends on why you think someone would ask for that. What if I've been abused at the hands of a woman so I ask for a man and I get a transman? Would that be acceptable? Why is someone asking for this? Because of the appearance? the strength of the touch? because they only trust a woman? Why?

(I'm not in any way minimising that, byt he way. I'm genuinely asking you).

I prefer a male doctor. I just do. Is a transman not allowed to see me?

I don't? That's an odd connection

You don't believe that women workers should have to share their changing rooms with transwomen who are indistinguishable from men?

Could you please clarify?

If a male police officer decides to identify as a woman, that person is then officially a transwoman. You've been arguing that such people should have the right to change in the same spaces as women.

Do you believe they should be allowed to or not? You're really not clear?

How about Callum/Abi, the genderfluid police officer?

www.thesun.co.uk/news/3624733/scotland-yard-police-officer-has-become-britains-first-gender-fluid-cop-and-has-both-male-and-female-ids-for-work/amp/

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Which of those does a transwoman not have?

You do know that most of them with their clothes off are fairly indistinguishable from any other male? A tiny percentage of them have genital surgery.

Yes.

Which raises the question - if they've had genital surgery, is that OK?

So the fundamental thing is my biology , based on which I have documents?

So basically by that logic no transwoman is a woman.

Ok