Page 38 | AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question

DeaconBoo · 27/01/2021 20:28

Quaagars, you've been on FWR threads for years. You generally post with a line or two replying to what someone else has said incorrectly yet I've rarely seen you put forth an actual viewpoint or summary of what you personally believe about this issue.

What's your answer to the OP question - i.e. Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?
Apols if I've missed it in this thread.

JoodyBlue · 27/01/2021 20:30

@ChattyLion

Joody it’s contentious because men (however they identify) should not be in a rape crisis environment, which is an exclusion for the benefit of women using those services. Women fought hard to set up these services for the benefit of women. Transwomen who have been raped would need specific appropriate care relating to their own issues which a dedicated service set up for their needs could better supply separately.

@ChattyLion fair point - I don't disagree - I find myself trying to find middle ground the whole time, it is a trait of mine. But you are right.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/01/2021 20:31

I’ve seen a few similar comments on this thread and I hate this attitude, which is basically “How are you going to stop us then?”

How about people taking responsibility for their own behaviour, and keeping out of places they’re not wanted, like millions of decent men do every day?

This. It's simply about respect for the privacy and dignity of women and girls, the majority of whom don't want males in female only spaces.

ListeningQuietly · 27/01/2021 20:31

Surreal that I got deleted for saying that East Germany cheated in the Olympics

Are people trying to say that male levels of testosterone are acceptable in Women's sport

Really ?

JoodyBlue · 27/01/2021 20:31

@Blubellsarebells

Please report trans hatred. Not seen any of that here. Womens rights and safegaurding are not trans hatred. The thread rightly got moved back to aibu.

yes

Original poster

Angryresister · 27/01/2021 20:32

Quaagars
it’s high time this issue is discussed freely, especially with the recent changes in the US

What, like giving more right to trans people, just like overturning Trump's ban on serving in the military?

Actually now those rights proposed to trans people actually means that women in the military will be forced to accept men in their sleeping quarters. Do you really think this is a good thing given the huge numbers of male on female violence and sexual assaults already?

OP posts:

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/01/2021 20:32

And as an aside, on a post on here where a woman’s normally loving partner frightened her so much with violence that she has to tell him to leave, Mumsnetters are blaming her!!

Doubt that was on FWR, was it? Many of the women commenting here have experienced DV personally.

ListeningQuietly · 27/01/2021 20:32

If transwomen are women
how does that fit with risks of

prostate cancer

If transmen are men
how does that fit with risks of

ovarian cancer

Thewithesarehere · 27/01/2021 20:34

@Angryresister

Quaagars it’s high time this issue is discussed freely, especially with the recent changes in the US

What, like giving more right to trans people, just like overturning Trump's ban on serving in the military?

Actually now those rights proposed to trans people actually means that women in the military will be forced to accept men in their sleeping quarters. Do you really think this is a good thing given the huge numbers of male on female violence and sexual assaults already?

Please start a new thread in AIBU. Thank you for starting this one

Bambini12 · 27/01/2021 20:34

"I don't think anyone is doing that?
Just that you can be a biological woman but still "know" that you're a woman, it's not always just down to what's between your legs."

This exactly. I know I'm a woman and it's not just because I have a female body. I have given birth and had periods. My body adds to my experience of being a woman but it does not define it.

I know I am a woman because I just know I am a woman. I don't see the problem with acknowledging that people in a body that looks different to mine, that have different genitalia can't know that they are women in the same way.

Do you all just think they are lying... Or mistaken or what? There are so many trans people with that experience that are saying it... I don't get how anyone could just dismiss that

TyroTerf · 27/01/2021 20:34

I am a woman because that is what lines up for me in my head.

If a feeling in the head is a prerequisite for being a woman, then there is no such thing as a dead woman, because dead people feel nothing.

Quaagars · 27/01/2021 20:37

@Bambini12

"I don't think anyone is doing that? Just that you can be a biological woman but still "know" that you're a woman, it's not always just down to what's between your legs."

This exactly. I know I'm a woman and it's not just because I have a female body. I have given birth and had periods. My body adds to my experience of being a woman but it does not define it.

I know I am a woman because I just know I am a woman. I don't see the problem with acknowledging that people in a body that looks different to mine, that have different genitalia can't know that they are women in the same way.

Do you all just think they are lying... Or mistaken or what? There are so many trans people with that experience that are saying it... I don't get how anyone could just dismiss that

Good post, I'm usually a lone voice when I say that so good to know there's others out there! It's not just giving birth (yep, been there, done, that more than once) there's more to it. If we could say what "it" was more clearly, surely we'd be millionaires by now lol

JoodyBlue · 27/01/2021 20:37

@Quaagars

To reduce (being a woman) to feelings is reductive to the experience of being a woman

I don't think anyone is doing that?
Just that you can be a biological woman but still "know" that you're a woman, it's not always just down to what's between your legs.

this is so disrespectful - the "what's between your legs" comment, it makes me angry and feel sick. How dare you speak to a woman like that. There are ways of making a point, this is not one of them.

Blubellsarebells · 27/01/2021 20:37

But theyre not women in the same way.
Because they are men.
Which means they get to move through the world with privilege.
They don't experience what women do, regardless of how we feel.
Men know how to treat women, and too often that is with contempt through to violence.
How do those men know who is a woman?
Who to talk down to?
Threaten? Harass, intimidate rape?
They cant read minds.

Whatwouldscullydo · 27/01/2021 20:39

Do you all just think they are lying... Or mistaken or what? There are so many trans people with that experience that are saying it... I don't get how anyone could just dismiss that

But then how can you identify as something you cant define ? If its feelings then why then change your body? There would be no male or female body..

What are you transitioning too or from?

Quaagars · 27/01/2021 20:41

this is so disrespectful - the "what's between your legs" comment, it makes me angry and feel sick. How dare you speak to a woman like that

You what?!
That's how people on the "GC" side put it, so I was just following suit.
Saying you know you're a woman if you look between your legs, or whatever.
I was just saying, no, actually, I'm more than just a walking fanny and tits, there's more to being a woman for me, even if people say, nope, that's your lot.

Winesalot · 27/01/2021 20:41

Do you all just think they are lying... Or mistaken or what? There are so many trans people with that experience that are saying it... I don't get how anyone could just dismiss that

Actually, most of the poster's here specifically question at what point does a transperson change into the other sex. And question why it is that women and children have to lose their rights where transpeople's rights conflict.

Or Bambini, do you fully believe there is no conflict at all? Not in safeguarding issues, not in sport, not in women's health and safety needs being met, no conflicts? You are ok with FGM victims and campaigners being told that their issues are not anything to do with the fact that they are female and to stop using their language?

All of it?

BrumBoo · 27/01/2021 20:42

Do you all just think they are lying... Or mistaken or what?

I think they're basing what a female is on stereotypes/fantasies they wish to live by, rather than the true experience of what it is to be a woman. They are living what they think society thinks a woman is, that being a woman is about personal likes and dislikes, the preference of the company of their chosen 'gender' rather than their own sex, that they have an idea of 'woman' in their head (an unhealthy one at that) and think they can act it out as reality. Anyone who's been brave enough to say what it is to be a woman outside of sex has never done anything but list offensive stereotypes about what women do/behave/like, though you're welcome to prove me wrong, @Bambini12?

VegetableLove · 27/01/2021 20:42

Do you all just think they are lying... Or mistaken or what? There are so many trans people with that experience that are saying it... I don't get how anyone could just dismiss that

I couldn't possibly know what anyone thinks or feels inside their own head. And as such it's probably not really worth much hand wringing. I don't want my ten year old daughter to undress next to a person who has male strength and socailisation and a penis though because that puts her in danger. And I don't get how anyone can dismiss that.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2021 20:43

@Bambini12

"I don't think anyone is doing that? Just that you can be a biological woman but still "know" that you're a woman, it's not always just down to what's between your legs."

This exactly. I know I'm a woman and it's not just because I have a female body. I have given birth and had periods. My body adds to my experience of being a woman but it does not define it.

I know I am a woman because I just know I am a woman. I don't see the problem with acknowledging that people in a body that looks different to mine, that have different genitalia can't know that they are women in the same way.

Do you all just think they are lying... Or mistaken or what? There are so many trans people with that experience that are saying it... I don't get how anyone could just dismiss that

But this is the sex / gender point in a nutshell. You are a woman , adult human female because of your biology. The fact that you believe you feel like a woman is to do with gender sterotypes. If I've misunderstood that then please explain. I'm desperately trying to get my head round this.

If your feeling like a woman is nothing to do with gender sterotypes then what is it that makes you feel like a woman aside from the biological fact of being one?

Whatwouldscullydo · 27/01/2021 20:43

I was just saying, no, actually, I'm more than just a walking fanny and tits, there's more to being a woman for me, even if people say, nope, that's your lot

How do they know which babies to abort or dump on the trash.

Babies are born naked with no ability to tell anyone their identity.

Yet enough is known to let them die

OvaHere · 27/01/2021 20:44

@Bambini12

"I don't think anyone is doing that? Just that you can be a biological woman but still "know" that you're a woman, it's not always just down to what's between your legs."

This exactly. I know I'm a woman and it's not just because I have a female body. I have given birth and had periods. My body adds to my experience of being a woman but it does not define it.

I know I am a woman because I just know I am a woman. I don't see the problem with acknowledging that people in a body that looks different to mine, that have different genitalia can't know that they are women in the same way.

Do you all just think they are lying... Or mistaken or what? There are so many trans people with that experience that are saying it... I don't get how anyone could just dismiss that

In my head I don't feel a day older than I did when I was 21. Objectively though I'm two decades older. Do all inner feelings change reality?

Thewithesarehere · 27/01/2021 20:44

@Quaagars

this is so disrespectful - the "what's between your legs" comment, it makes me angry and feel sick. How dare you speak to a woman like that

You what?!
That's how people on the "GC" side put it, so I was just following suit.
Saying you know you're a woman if you look between your legs, or whatever.
I was just saying, no, actually, I'm more than just a walking fanny and tits, there's more to being a woman for me, even if people say, nope, that's your lot.

This post from @Quaagars is a living proof of why the education system of U.K. needs an overhaul. I am sure you can explain to me how the female reproductive system and all relevant assorted systems (hormonal, metabolic, immune and nervous) are interconnected. Please go on and explain how much you understand the biology of being a female.

Original poster

Angryresister · 27/01/2021 20:45

withesarehere which question would you like me to ask? There are so many. I want to reinstate the voting button which has been removed from this one. Definitely of interest to women here on AIBU. I can’t inmagine wh6 some people think it wouldn’t be!

OP posts:

JoodyBlue · 27/01/2021 20:45

@Quaagars

this is so disrespectful - the "what's between your legs" comment, it makes me angry and feel sick. How dare you speak to a woman like that

You what?!
That's how people on the "GC" side put it, so I was just following suit.
Saying you know you're a woman if you look between your legs, or whatever.
I was just saying, no, actually, I'm more than just a walking fanny and tits, there's more to being a woman for me, even if people say, nope, that's your lot.

It is the way the porn merchants talk. An objectification. It is offensive. It switches me off to any regard for comments that follow. I read and consider most of what is said, even if I disagree. But that casual disrespect makes me see red.