AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question

[Angryresister]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask

Please can someone tell me why a TW is less likely to be a threat to me or my DD than Dave who lives across the road? Dave may not wear a frock but I swear he's a true gent.

Do you institute a genital check at the door?

I’ve seen a few similar comments on this thread and I hate this attitude, which is basically “How are you going to stop us then?”

How about people taking responsibility for their own behaviour, and keeping out of places they’re not wanted, like millions of decent men do every day?

And as an aside, on a post on here where a woman’s normally loving partner frightened her so much with violence that she has to tell him to leave, Mumsnetters are blaming her!! Oddly enough, a cisgender man frightening a woman in her own home. Shock horror.
That’s your reality. Not someone using a bloody toilet.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

For me it's as simple as this.

If a biological male wants access to the ladies spaces based on their feelings even though they know that this will put more women in harms way, make young girls feel anxious by their presence (because let's be honest a predatory Male doesn't have a neon sign over their head indicating their intention and research has show that no amount of so called transition process changes male behaviour patterns) in that space, and mean that women of some faiths will no longer be able to use that space due their presence, them they are a spectacularly selfish fucker.

Why do their needs trump those women and girls? Why are these individuals not addressing the reason they don't feel safe in the men's instead of using their male privilege to intimidate? If you want to show women you really have an affinity with them, maybe do something to help a problem we have in common.

Please, those of you screeching transphobia do enlighten me.

And while your at it, what's your views on letting any male, regardless of their special identity, into every space. Let's just do away with safe spaces altogether. After all, NAMALT. what could possibly go wrong?

Excellent post

Idratherberude

@SweetPetrichorgender identity is not covered by the equality act at all.

Are you thinking of gender reassignment?
Gender reassignment entitles that person the same rights afforded to someone of the same sex as themselves who has not gone through the process of gender reassignment. So a male who has gone through gender reassignment is not disadvantaged compared to a male who has not when applying for a job role.

This really does bare repeating. And often.

[quote littlbrowndog]I linked you wildraisins further up the thread. Here it is again

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6814599/Transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-Morrisons-female-toilets.html[/quote]
Ok. Thanks and well found.

Now, please do a search for the number of trans women who have been assaulted by men in male changing rooms and tell me which was easier to find.

This is why trans women are allowed in female changing rooms.

Hmmmm, people with a penis create all sorts of problems don't they? Toilets or not.

wildraisins

Plenty of examples on this thread for you to look at.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

@wildraisins

There's no way you've read that entire blog. I've given you multiple examples in there but you won't see it because you don't want to. Also a previous poster has provided a specific link. Why are you ignoring it 🤔?

@whoamongstus, so if actual females (you know the ones born with female primary and secondary sexcharacteristics) and have been socialised as a female from birth, cant easily identify whether someone else is a female or not, then what exactly is a trans woman imitating? And if its not about the female body , why take hormones/genital surgery/voicebox surgery. It wouldnt be so regressive surely to think that being female is about the clothes, and if its the female thoughts and behaviours that are uniquely female, what are they exactly? After all if we cant tell who is female and who is male just because they both are wearing dresses, why the need to be validated as passing as the opposite sex?

This is why trans women are allowed in female changing rooms

God forbid men sort out their own issues ?

Who else shall we take in to absorb male violence?

Short men?
Skinny men?
Gay men?
Disabled men?

Who else isn't safe...

Idratherberude

SweetPetrichorgender identity is not covered by the equality act at all.

Are you thinking of gender reassignment?

Gender reassignment entitles that person the same rights afforded to someone of the same sex as themselves who has not gone through the process of gender reassignment. So a male who has gone through gender reassignment is not disadvantaged compared to a male who has not when applying for a job role

@nanbread

A third space would also make transpeople more vulnerable to violence.

We already know transwomen are more likely to be attacked / killed than average.

What's to stop malicious people targeting third spaces?

Around 350 trans people were killed last year, compared to 6 woman being killed every hour...

Perhaps the toilets should be marked "penis", "no penis".

I'm also interested in how difficult you all find it to find these examples, as opposed to finding examples of assaults on trans women when they use male changing rooms.

I hear this repeated often but never do see news stories about it. Is there an equivalent to the tumblr above collating instances of this?

Now, please do a search for the number of trans women who have been assaulted by men in male changing rooms and tell me which was easier to find.

You right about this and that is because the search algorithms are slanted so we find the results that Big Tech want us to. I suggest a book called "The Madness Of Crowds". It explains how and why they do this and why we are never really getting the full story - only one side, unless we go searching intensively for it.

Some people here speak a lot of sense, make valid points and are very diplomatic about their responses while other people shove their fingers in their ears and scream lalalalalalalala transphobia.

You can't claim a fair discussion, about women's rights and their erosion at the hands of predominantly men is transphobic. Women's rights matter.

Im struggling to see why male violence against other males is womens problem to solve.
Why should we move over?
Where are all these stories of tw being assaulted by men in changing rooms?
Reverse the favour and provide one.

Perhaps the toilets should be marked "penis", "no penis".

No, it's only women who are reduced to our anatomy in this enforced form of 'Newspeak'.

Men still receive the male privilege of being 'allowed' to define themselves as men.

The misogyny is staggering.

Couchbettato

You can't claim a fair discussion, about women's rights and their erosion at the hands of predominantly men is transphobic. Women's rights matter.

Women's Rights are Human Rights.

Oh, and OP.

Yanbu.

I really don't see the problem in having MALE and FEMALE changing rooms/toilets based on sex, and then mandating that all establishments provide a UNISEX single-space toilet (i.e. not cubicles) that anyone is allowed to use if they don't feel comfortable using the shared space for their sex.

This is a disaster for women rights, quite a few steps back in the direction of 1950s.

A third "unisex" space is not at all outing.
A unisex space is liberating.
I would use it sometimes and not other times.

A unisex space is for people (almost always women) who are stuck in a queue out the door of their single sex facility and don't have reasons they cannot share a space with men, but honestly would rather wait than walk past a row of urinals in use. (This is me).

A unisex space is for parents and carers with small children of the other sex. (This was me.)

A unisex space is for parents and carers of small children of both sexes.

A unisex space is for people who don't want to use the space that matches their sex. (This includes some trans people.)

A unisex space is for anyone who doesn't feel single sex spaces matter.

A unisex space is for anyone who is happy to use either single or uni - sex spaces for changing/peeing/whatever.

A unisex space is for people who are not trans but want to actively help trans people not stand out when using the facilities which everyone is allowed to use. (Some of these people use the term trans-ally.)

Sorry, what are the downsides?

I think this issue could be solved by having lockable cubicals. It’s actually a debate which will never be solved because it goes right to the very core of people’s disagreements surrounding trans people.

Some people believe that a trans person can never fully change into the opposite gender, they believe that sex chromosomes trump any surgery or hormone changes that someone can undergo.

Others believe that once you have undergone hormones and some level of surgery (normally enough to ‘pass’ if you were to glance I’m guessing?) you are now the other gender.

There is nuance to this issue where some believe that gender stops at presentation and this blurs the lines even more in the debate. It’s a difficult issue, and delicate on both sides. The best compromise is for us ALL to be in a place which we feel safe, and that means having the ability for all of us to have a separate cubical that we can lock.