AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question

[Angryresister]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask

@wildraisins

Again, please someone find me an example of when this has actually happened.

Where a cis woman has been sexually or physically assaulted by a trans woman.

Just one.

And while you're at it, you could also look up how much abuse trans people experience every single day.

You don’t think a trans woman has ever assaulted a woman? That’s quite a claim.

The more salient point is whether they pose the same risk of doing so as a man or if their gender identity acts as a protective factor. I’m open to seeing evidence about this as I’ve no desire to see a marginalised community further excluded, but I can’t seem to get any evidence because some fucking stupid people think even asking the question is “transphobic”.

[quote wildraisins]@BrumBoo

What are these rights that women want to protect though?

How many women have been assaulted by a trans woman?

What is the fear and where does it come from?

People are scared of what they don't understand. There is a plethora of resources about gender and sex online, I don't need to educate anyone here because you are all presumably intelligent people who can go away and read about it if you want to.

I am simply tired of having these debates with people who lack understanding and probably have never actually spoken to a real trans person.[/quote]
The right to fairness. The right to sex based spaces without fear of intrusion of those who 'think' they're female. Right to fair play in sports, which including transwoman doesn't give, the right to have scholarships and women-based jobs be kept sex-based. The right to feel safe in prison, not at risk of rape from their female identifying cell mate.

Though what a surprise, another who cannot explain what it means to 'believe' you're woman as opposed to be one. Treat me like a stupid person who can't use Google, @wildraisins, and explain it to us all. How does one feel female over being female?

Oh, and I've spoken to plenty of trans people but let's not have a race to the bottom about it.

What are these rights that women want to protect though?
The right to single sex spaces.
Privacy
Dignity
Safety
Fairness
The right to have places I can go that doesn't include dick.
Im saying no.

How many women have been assaulted by a trans woman?
How many would be enough for you to be satisfied there is a problem?
Are we only allowed to complain when we're being assaulted?

@wildraisins

Here you go:-

theysaythisneverhappens.tumblr.com

Lots of reading for you there.

OK... but a) we're not allowing men in. We're allowing trans women in

What's a transwomen? What definition are we talking about?

@wildraisins I’ve been raped. I wasn’t raped by a trans woman but nor was I raped by someone’s gender identity. I was raped by a male person with a penis. The fact of someone having a penis would be traumatic for me if asked to be in a vulnerable situation with that person (even if they were harmless, as I’m sure the majority of trans women are). Am I transphobic for having a traumatic reaction to my sexual assault?

And stop using the term CIS woman ,, I am woman ,, full stop

I must say I do struggle with the position that a fully surgically-transitioned transwoman - what used to be called a 'transexual' - should use the male changing facilities. I know right now it's unfashionable to have a 'hierarchy' of trans based on physical transition status, but I've always felt the problem lies in the intact male anatomy in female spaces, not at a chromosomal level. By the same token, I think many women would double-take at a fully-transitioned transman, replete with 'neopenis' and full beard, using the ladies' changing room on the basis that they have a second X chromosome.

wildraisins What makes a transwoman (who is an adult human male), the same as an adult human female?

Women are women, transwomen are transwomen. Women and transwomen are not the same (they are different sexes for starters!)

I rather think the question is about why men and men's facilities cannot be adapted and made safe enough to accommodate the needs of men who choose to live their lives enacting a traditionally female persona.

The problem is not solved by removing women's rights, but making society more inclusive for men who choose non traditional ways of dressing.

Where a cis woman has been sexually or physically assaulted by a trans woman.

Again you are assuming that there are clear lines between vague and subjective descriptors like 'cis' and 'trans'.

@DickKerrLadies

Funny you should use the words sniffer dog, I've heard that many animals appear to be able to tell the difference between male and female humans.

There was a FB post some months ago from a woman who had been abused and threatened for being "TERF".

A group women and children, had asked to pet her dog. A TW had then tried to stroke it (a rescue animal) and it had pulled away from him. and he was annoyed and kept trying to touch it even though it was hiding behind her legs and obviously anxious. The woman had said - "Sorry - she's a rescue and was badly abused by a man. She's very wary of men."

Cue a tirade of abuse which had left the woman very shaken and upset.

For me it's as simple as this.

If a biological male wants access to the ladies spaces based on their feelings even though they know that this will put more women in harms way, make young girls feel anxious by their presence (because let's be honest a predatory Male doesn't have a neon sign over their head indicating their intention and research has show that no amount of so called transition process changes male behaviour patterns) in that space, and mean that women of some faiths will no longer be able to use that space due their presence, them they are a spectacularly selfish fucker.

Why do their needs trump those women and girls? Why are these individuals not addressing the reason they don't feel safe in the men's instead of using their male privilege to intimidate? If you want to show women you really have an affinity with them, maybe do something to help a problem we have in common.

Please, those of you screeching transphobia do enlighten me.

And while your at it, what's your views on letting any male, regardless of their special identity, into every space. Let's just do away with safe spaces altogether. After all, NAMALT. what could possibly go wrong?

I linked you wildraisins further up the thread. Here it is again

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6814599/Transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-Morrisons-female-toilets.html

@wildraisins

Again, please someone find me an example of when this has actually happened.

Where a cis woman has been sexually or physically assaulted by a trans woman.

Just one.

And while you're at it, you could also look up how much abuse trans people experience every single day.

Sure thing. Whilst you're at it, look at how much abuse girls and women face every day. Whilst you're going on in this thread, have a look at the number of girls that are currently being married off to old men, raped, forced into a pregnancy that will destroy their tiny bodies, possibly kill them. Look at how many baby girls are being aborted for being biological girls, or killed shortly after birth for not having the right genitals. Hundreds, just whilst you're reading these posts. Thousands every year. Where is your horror at that, where is your anger and fight? You demand the already privileged get rights whilst biological girls and women are dying at the hands of their same sex.

What are these rights that women want to protect though?

Wow😱

@MrsHusky

No she shouldn't be banned but, its not THAT black and white as some people are saying.

I know a lot of Transwomen, i can assure you, not ONE of them has ANY kind of intention of abusing/raping a woman, and i have absolutely no issue in sharing shower/bathroom space with them, and have done at various conventions where we've used the spaces swimming pools/public toilets.

Personally, there ought to be a 'genderless' facility available for those who dont want to be in the male/female spaces, or lockable cubicles provided now.

There are enough non-binary folk around who aren't trans, but who still dont want to be in their bio-gender bathrooms that society ought to adapt to be inclusive.

I’m sure this has been picked up already. But I know a lot of men and non of them have any intention of abusing or raping a woman. And yet we protect women from the risk that some men do.

There enough examples of predatory men describing themselves as trans who have raped and abused women in single sex spaces.

“Not all trans” is no more an argument to remove protected spaces than “not all men”. I know this is hurtful to some trans people. It’s hurtful to some men too but it’s not our job to centre hurt feelings over safety.

More likely to be killed or attacked on average than who? Statistically men are more like to be attacked than women (by other men), transitioning to female actually reduces mens’ chances of being attacked. Also, between 2008 and 2017, 9 trans people were murdered. So an average of 1 per year, 2 women are murdered EVERY SINGLE WEEK! So how are trans people more vulnerable to violence?

@wildraisins
OK... but a) we're not allowing men in. We're allowing trans women in.

How are trans women different from men, in your statement?

And several posters have linked to reports as you've requested, stop being so disingenuous.

I'm also interested in how difficult you all find it to find these examples, as opposed to finding examples of assaults on trans women when they use male changing rooms.

You will find that the latter far outweigh the former.

Then surely we should be looking at doing something about male violence, rather than making women and children more vulnerable to it?

And google assaults on women/children by self-ID'd individuals. There're plenty about.

And there are also a lot of vile threats on social media by TWs against any females who dare to criticise/disagree with them.

JK Rowling came in for some horrific abuse - and she said nothing transphobic

@wildraisins

Again, please someone find me an example of when this has actually happened.

Where a cis woman has been sexually or physically assaulted by a trans woman.

Just one.

And while you're at it, you could also look up how much abuse trans people experience every single day.

Have you watched These are Not Our Crimes on YouTube? Many examples of women being abused by transwomen, whose crimes are then recorded as crimes committed by women and appear as such on crime statistics, skewing perception of who is responsible for violent crimes in our society.

Can you stop for a moment and imagine what it is like for a woman who has, despite all the odds , got a rape case to court, only to be told by the judge that in giving her evidence she must only refer to the person who raped her (with his penis) by using the pronoun she and her, because to do otherwise would be hateful and hurtful to the accused rapist .

The term "Cis" used casually is banned on this website. Best not to use it if you dont want to be deleted/banned.

If anyone is concerned at this please consider completing this consultation on Freedom of Expression. Deadline is 31 January. No lengthy documents to wade through and you can say as much or as little as you like about the issues you believe are important.

committees.parliament.uk/call-for-evidence/307/freedom-of-expression/