To wonder why men don't seem to feel "mum guilt"?

[giantwaterbottle]

I don't mean this to be a man bashing thread, I've just been thinking about the above.

DH is a good dad and he puts in as much time with the kids as me, he's done half of the majority of things although I do more hands on as he works and I am on maternity (or if not have worked part time).

Every night I go to bed and think of all the things I did wrong/wish I hadn't shouted/been cross etc/feel guilty for not doing more crafts etc etc.

I also constantly worry about their development and if I'm doing things wrong/doing enough.

I spoke to DH about this last night and he said he occasionally thinks like that but rarely.

I just don't understand!!! Also he gets frustrated with them more than I do, so I don't understand how he doesn't seem to second guess himself.

I've spoken to friends about this and their DH's seem to be the same.

So why don't men feel this?

This may come as a shock but not all men are the same.

A bit like women really

Your question should be - “why do women feel this way?”.

My dh gets it, he tells me sometimes that he finds it hard to drop the kids off at nursery, or regrets losing his cool with our toddler, but it's rare that he opens up about it. Without wandering too far down the 'toxic patriarchy' road and accepting I am generalising a bit, I do wonder how much of it is down to men being socialised not to share their feelings in the same way that women do.

I don’t feel

I don’t feel guilty I haven’t done more craft with my children. Just because you do and your DH does is probably due to personality more than a sweeping statement about women.

Because society doesn't expect them to feel guilty about any of that.

They don't get bombarded with the idea that you're a bad dad if you don't read 17 million books or make intricate craft models. Dad's get the message that if they are home for bedtime and occasionally go to the park they're doing a good job.

I don’t feel that mum guilt. I really don’t. So I guess, not all women and men are the same. Some fathers will feel that guilt.

I think it's to do with social expectations. There's still an element to which a dad is amazing if he takes the kids to the park or cooks dinner where as a mum is expected to be constantly doing beautiful craft projects and baking cookies just to be considered OK.

That said it's not always true. DH feels guilty for working too much sometimes. Where as I feel guilty for not prioritising my career more. I think life is filled with guilt for most of us!

Ah ok I should have prefaced with 'not all men' but I did say 'most' men.

My dad was a very hands on parent and he certainly talked to us about his guilt, saying sorry when he'd been cross etc. He was/is a very talkative man and will constantly chat and discuss everything with us.

My husband is not that way inclined. He definitely keeps more to himself but occasionally shares his feelings.

He did get very upset leaving our toddler at nursery when he was settling and cried and he is upset when they are distressed but what I mean more is reflecting on his parenting, the impact on our kids, now I'm saying it out loud maybe it's not that many men and just mine 🤷‍♀️

Look at how many folk complain about their DH getting told "oh you're such a good dad" on the school run, or walking with their kids like it's some massive achievement.

The bar is loooooooow, lower, down a bit, yeah down there for dad's.

I don’t get that , Obviously I have had it at times if warranted but certainly not over the things I see posted on here a lot . I see how society does put pressure on mums to be a certain way etc though in a way they don’t do men . Luckily I’m the type of person that doesn’t let that stuff affect me

I don’t feel that guilt. Sometimes I feel wistful and perplexed that other mothers seem to enjoy interacting with their children in an entirely different way to me (lots of craft, don’t work etc), but I don’t feel guilty about it per se. I think I’m providing a positive role model in a different way. I’m not as ‘fun’ as some parents but I’m always there and try to always have time for them.

I agree with you OP. We women have a lot of guilt. I have many friends and colleagues who feel the same

As a working mum I feel guilty when I'm at work and not with my kids. When I'm with them, I feel guilty about neglecting work

Generally speaking they don't need to because they have outsourced to women

Because society tells mums that whatever they do for their kids it’s not enough.
While telling men that anything they do for their kids is a bonus.

It’s not said outright. It’s insidious, tiny little micro pressures, subconscious messages.

It’s a bit like how we wouldn’t feel guilty if we let work down to attend to the kids. They are the other way round. It works out quite well as you need both to keep things on an even keel

My husband will feel bad if he shouts or has a day where they do nothing but tablet but not the general low level guilt that he isn't stimulating them enough/ taking them to enough classes / isnt spending enough quality time with them just isnt there. For example I work 4 days as I feel bad that they would be in nursery full time (they normally do 8 til 5.30 so long days which I also feel guilty about). He would happily have them in nursery every day and thinks this will have no detrimental affect.

I think it's down to a few things
His career is more important to him than mine is to me (personality or social conditioning?) Though he does probably more than his fair share of taking days off for sick kids, pick ups, drop offs, doctors appointments etc and did share paternity leave with me.
He is generally much more chill than me and doesnt ever second guess his decisions (personality), I generally do this in a lot of areas of my life

But mainly I think that other people assume that men work and that childcare and any decisions related to children are the womans responsibility and therefore women are judged for any child related decisions or childrens behaviour a lot more than men are.

For instance I don't think men know or care or talk about what schools their friends kids go to whereas lots of women I know agonise over these decisions

Less oestrogen more testosterone?

I’m a woman and I don’t feel this way.

I do my best but I’m human and I don’t kill myself over things I’ve said / done. I’ve got more accepting of things as I’ve got older (now 40s) and I don’t have time to worry about stuff.

I think generally men are more laid back about home stuff. Women tend to frazzle themselves over things too much.

I decided to stop feeling guilty about stuff like that when I asked dh and he just looked blank. In our rows about his lack of empathy (for the kids, he's got lots of empathy for the animals) or why he can't make himself go out of his comfort zone, he just says:"I'm just not like that. "

Well neither am I, but I've learned. Or at least pretended. I think that's the problem- dh is/ was really good in all the practical ways: cooking, nappies, taking them to soft play etc and all that stuff, but even he seemed to have imbibed the idea that the kid stuff is in some way innate. To be honest, had I not had years of teaching experience before dc, and read up on things when pregnant, I'd have been just as clueless as dh. The difference is that I knew it was a skill that I'd have to learn and he was happy to retreat into 'I'm not good at it". Then he gets pissed off when I overrule him.

Ah, the work thing is interesting. He's the one with a job and I'm the one with the career, so he's always been the one to leave work cos I worry too much about letting work down.

I don't have this mum guilt at all

But I think many of us were raised in traditional "dad works, mum is at home" families, so i guess some women feel they're trying to combine work and being the primary carer

Massively unreasonable to make such a generalization based on your husband.
My dh, db and other males in our families are extremely hands on, involved so I don't think men are the less caring parent.
I don't feel guilt because I am doing the best I can and I can't be perfect. I do know that ds is very loved and happy and that's most important.

It is not just mum guilt - women are raised to expect people to have the right to comment on them and their actions - and internalize it to constantly beat themselves up about what they do or dont do. Men are socialized differently. Its the patriarchy in action - if you lose confidence in yourself, you are less able to stand up for yourself. And so inexcusable ways of treating women continue.

I don't think about a lot of the stuff you do
(I think you need to look at what you're guilting over tbh)

But generally speaking I think most men are more minded not to worry about things they can't change AND don't think about shite like how much craft the kids have done.