To wonder why men don't seem to feel "mum guilt"?

[giantwaterbottle]

I don't mean this to be a man bashing thread, I've just been thinking about the above.

DH is a good dad and he puts in as much time with the kids as me, he's done half of the majority of things although I do more hands on as he works and I am on maternity (or if not have worked part time).

Every night I go to bed and think of all the things I did wrong/wish I hadn't shouted/been cross etc/feel guilty for not doing more crafts etc etc.

I also constantly worry about their development and if I'm doing things wrong/doing enough.

I spoke to DH about this last night and he said he occasionally thinks like that but rarely.

I just don't understand!!! Also he gets frustrated with them more than I do, so I don't understand how he doesn't seem to second guess himself.

I've spoken to friends about this and their DH's seem to be the same.

So why don't men feel this?

I think most men are raised not to show emotion/tenderness as its weakness, not manly.

My husbands view was were the girls happy, safe, loved and cared for, then fine. He did worry about them just as much as me, just didn't say it. We would often worry about the same things but while I would come out and say it he would try and reassure me, often later admitting he had been worried.

As for getting frustrated with them, that was me. I'm sure he did but simply didn't show it. He always seemed to have time for them though on some occasions there was a closing of the eyes and a deep intake of breath before going on.

There'd not a lot of point in worrying about it. They'll grow up to be there own selves in the end. All you can do is your best.

Because men haven’t spent millennia being socialised to believe that raising children and domestic work is “their” job.

@museumum

Because society tells mums that whatever they do for their kids it’s not enough. While telling men that anything they do for their kids is a bonus.

It’s not said outright. It’s insidious, tiny little micro pressures, subconscious messages.

I agree. My DH is a good and involved father. He loves our DDs, and even did a stint as the at-home parent when he was between jobs. But when things go wrong between him and the children (misbehavior, communication hiccups, tantrums, normal stuff...) he tends to think about what's wrong with the kids, not about how he could approach or handle things better next time. When he does think of the latter, it's much later in his thought process.

Says the lady discussing this on a long-established forum called Mumsnet.

I think a lot of your worrying you could knock on the head if you try and work on shouting etc.
I'm not a perfect mum, but i do run a tight ship without shouting or outwardly cross etc. I dont know if its working a high stress job that means i honestly cant get worked up over bickering or mess etc.
I'm sure there's lots of situations where it would be unacceptable of you to shout at the people you're dealing with (work/school clubs/friends).
Might just be one less thing to worry about

Lollyneenah

But the point of the thread is why is this mum guilt specifically? Your advice is fine but why should that apply only to mums?

Ironically women now apparently have only to blame themselves for blaming themselves so much.

Mum guilt is a social construct. When expecting our babies I solely got asked
was i going back to work? Whaaat..FT? Really...oh you’ll regret it
Why are you looking at nurseries?
Why would you leave such small babies with a stranger?

No one said to DP
Are you going back to work
When baby comes you’ll feel differently and won’t want to leave small baby
Can you work PT?
Why not give up work it’s only a few years. They’re only babies a short time

He got congratulations and was expected to crack on work wise
I got disapproval with head tilt and pursed lips

I’ve never had a day guilt
Guilt about what?Providing for my family...Maintaining a career

I was only ever heaped with derision from other women
No man ever asked me why I was working FT. Ever
No man has ever asked why I wasn’t at sport day,because it’s same reason as him...work

Your question should be - “why do women feel this way?”.

I agree - I don’t personally feel this way often though. Saying ‘why don’t they feel mum guilt?’ implies that they should. Why should anyone feel guilty if they’re doing their best as a parent. If you feel guilty despite being a good parent then that’s an issue you need to address, not expect your other half to feel the same.

"Every night I go to bed and think of all the things I did wrong/wish I hadn't shouted/been cross etc/feel guilty for not doing more crafts etc etc."

That strikes me as very extreme-unless is an exaggeration for effect!

Ah ok I should have prefaced with 'not all men' but I did say 'most' men.

I think you’re guessing. But I’ll guess too ..... probably has a lot less to do with gender and much more to do with who is the active/more active caregiver/activity planner.

You’re looking at two different outcomes and putting it on genitals/brain differences when it can easily be explained away by different division of tasks/responsibilities

Praise and reward, heaped upon men by women. dp takes kids to nursery and school and he gets cooed,praise, Im Told what a great dad he is
Such effusive praise . Ummm, he’s just doing regular parenting stuff. He’s not in the peace corps handing out medication.

Every night I go to bed and think of all the things I did wrong/wish I hadn't shouted/been cross etc/feel guilty for not doing more crafts etc etc

I also constantly worry about their development and if I'm doing things wrong/doing enough

That seems a pointless waste of emotion to me.

That is quite a sweeping statement because I would say that not all women have mum guilt and and not all men don't. But generally yes it does appear to be more of a mum thing.
The only explanation is that men and women are different

Its so easy to go to bed replaying the day, what you should have done, what you could have done. It is a waste of emotion, but that doesnt mean you can just stop it if you are that sort of character.

I listen to a podcast before sleep to stop switch my brain off, not about mum stuff but other stuff, so i know what you mean OP.

I think men are programmed to not display their emotions as much, just because he isnt talking about it doesnt necessarily mean he isnt thinking it. But as is life in general, some people over think everything and some dont.

I think if one’s predisposition is worry & anxiety you’ll also worry as a parent
How one reacts to Being a parent is intrinsically linked to predisposition and one’s own habituation

I know what you mean. We were talking about school closures the other day and I said the biggest stress about it for me was the worry about their education, falling behind and lack of socialising with others their own age. DH, who is a good husband and dad, had literally not even thought about this, let alone worried about it.

When I first had them and was worrying about going back to work because it meant leaving them in nursery for long hours (like 10 hours a day at age 1), it had not occurred to him that this was anything we should be factoring in, or thinking about. No guilt or worry at the thought whatsoever, he was thinking about finances and logistics.

@museumum

Because society tells mums that whatever they do for their kids it’s not enough. While telling men that anything they do for their kids is a bonus.

It’s not said outright. It’s insidious, tiny little micro pressures, subconscious messages.

Exactly this. I remember going into a cafe with newborn ds just to get out of the house for a bit, and struggling to get the buggy in the door. When I finally got inside, the woman behind the counter told me to use my backside to open the door in future and I would soon get used to it. She wasn’t unkind but she wasn’t particularly helpful either.

A few weeks later I went to meet dh and ds in the same cafe for brunch after having my hair done. I walked in to see the same woman pushing the pram to the table for dh, while another carried his tray for him. He was strolling along behind, empty handed and oblivious. When I went over they told me how lucky I was to have a dh that will babysit. I was too shocked to respond but I never went back again. Dh couldn’t understand why I was so furious.

Male advantage. Women would be socially judged - by women - if they behaved like men, so women set out to achieve highly to allay this.

For men, the world opens up for them with less effort than a woman. If a man has a family amd is highly achieving, you can bet your life there is a woman in the back ground keeping it together for him, and swearing that it's "no sweat" in the process

Yes, but to be fair, subconsciously, the women were probably looking out for the baby not the man

Also the equivalent pressure on a man tends to relate to “providing”: bringing home the bacon.

I think to the extent that men feel guilt and pressure in relation to family life it tends to locate itself around this.

My DH feels more “parent guilt” than I do. He’s constantly whinging and hand wringing over the smallest thing. But he’s a more anxious personality compared to me.

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

I know what you mean. We were talking about school closures the other day and I said the biggest stress about it for me was the worry about their education, falling behind and lack of socialising with others their own age. DH, who is a good husband and dad, had literally not even thought about this, let alone worried about it.

When I first had them and was worrying about going back to work because it meant leaving them in nursery for long hours (like 10 hours a day at age 1), it had not occurred to him that this was anything we should be factoring in, or thinking about. No guilt or worry at the thought whatsoever, he was thinking about finances and logistics.

Unless we decide to make men care - and to be fair, little in life makes a man motivated to care, this will happen.

It's the mum who is complained to if their child misbehaves, them that has to sort out their children's inadequacies, because if that child grows up to be like this as an adult the mum feels bad because females all over - grans, her own mum, her sister, female friends - will project in subtle and not so subtle, that she's to blame.

Men have little incentive in the same way. I do wonder, if Darwin would ever have passed judgment, if he would have thought that existence of a nurturing parent anthropologically advantages species which would otherwise become extinct if left to their own devices.

Not a biologist, but there may be many studies into this.

Be brave, women, get men to do their share, don't fuss if they do it different to you, ignore the guilt vibes, do your thing, and you will feel better for it.

As for home schooling, bring it up - "You know they need to get this work done for school - what are your thoughts? What plan have you got? When can you fit it in? I'ce put your number down for the teacher to contact you for progress/well being updates".

Then leave it - the children will want to do the work for their teacher by and large, and dad has been made aware, asked for his plan and how it should be done. May save you some time and they'll all survive.

@notangelinajolie

That is quite a sweeping statement because I would say that not all women have mum guilt and and not all men don't. But generally yes it does appear to be more of a mum thing. The only explanation is that men and women are different

Don't let Joe Biden hear you say that!