To wonder why men don't seem to feel "mum guilt"?

[giantwaterbottle]

I don't mean this to be a man bashing thread, I've just been thinking about the above.

DH is a good dad and he puts in as much time with the kids as me, he's done half of the majority of things although I do more hands on as he works and I am on maternity (or if not have worked part time).

Every night I go to bed and think of all the things I did wrong/wish I hadn't shouted/been cross etc/feel guilty for not doing more crafts etc etc.

I also constantly worry about their development and if I'm doing things wrong/doing enough.

I spoke to DH about this last night and he said he occasionally thinks like that but rarely.

I just don't understand!!! Also he gets frustrated with them more than I do, so I don't understand how he doesn't seem to second guess himself.

I've spoken to friends about this and their DH's seem to be the same.

So why don't men feel this?

@Bitbusyattheminute I find this really interesting as my DH is similar. At the beginning he did feel very down on himself, think he wasn't a good dad, didn't know what to do (he was fine with nappies/cooking/cleaning/dressing/baths all practicalities but found crying baby that he was unable to soothe/tantruming toddler hard to handle as felt he was failing because he couldn't do it.

I felt these things too, however o would always be looking stuff up/reading the books/Googling etc whereas he would just write it off as well I'm not good at it, and feel bad.

Every night I go to bed and think of all the things I did wrong/wish I hadn't shouted/been cross etc/feel guilty for not doing more crafts etc etc. I also constantly worry about their development and if I'm doing things wrong/doing enough

I never did this. I suppose I should feel guilty because I didn’t. I’m not going to, though.

Could it be hormonal?

I have passed into menopause and really care far less about putting others first. It's refreshing.

Hormones

Perfectionism

Societal expectations

more sense?

I'm not a mum but I don't do guilt for things that a man would not worry about. Makes life a lot easier.

Ok I am starting to think that it is actually me that has the problem (ironic I know as I am now blaming myself).

It seems that a lot of women actually don't feel this awful mum guilt!

As a PP said, I tend to feel guilty about a lot of things in my life not just the kids so I think I've got some work to do on myself!

I actually feel pretty positive about this! Very unexpected turn for this thread for me

Because men are socialised to believe that being a parent is should be the most important thing they do with their life and they should have innate qualities that make them automatically good at it.

I don't tend to swear that stuff either, sure I might get the odd niggling thought about it but I certainly don't ruminate on it.

*aren't socialised that should say!

Every night I go to bed and think of all the things I did wrong/wish I hadn't shouted/been cross etc/feel guilty for not doing more crafts etc etc. I also constantly worry about their development and if I'm doing things wrong/doing enough.

Despite my penis I feel exactly the same. It's me who tends to always be researching parenting online and overthinking, and DW who just wings it.

I think the discrepancy is about how anxious/analytical a person you are. It's taken me a lot of effort to realise I'm often unhealthy in my worries- perhaps you need to consider the same?

That's not to say there are not big average differences between the sexes but I think that is about how much men are still not expected to be the main carers- that's what needs to change.

@SunsetSenora

It is not just mum guilt - women are raised to expect people to have the right to comment on them and their actions - and internalize it to constantly beat themselves up about what they do or dont do. Men are socialized differently. Its the patriarchy in action - if you lose confidence in yourself, you are less able to stand up for yourself. And so inexcusable ways of treating women continue.

I agree, it's important that we recognise how these things work so that we can mitigate them Ask yourself 'what would a man do in this situation' and do that, look after number one ...like they do

@murbblurb wow, I don't think men have more sense than women!

I think women are on the whole more empathetic (whether that's nature or nurture or a mix I don't know) so I think if we followed suit and did everything because me do we'd lose a lot of the wonderful things that make women so great.

But I dislike this general dislike of women's/girls interests and anything "girly" or "feminine" being deemed bad and sexist.

Instead of equality for all and women being equal to men it ended up for women to be equal to men they had to be like men. Just my
Opinion though

I'm a woman and I don't get mum guilt.

I don't even think 'mum guilt' is a thing OP, I think it's just probably an anxiety that some people suffer from.

Thank you for that @donquixotedelamancha I think you are right, actually one of my male friends has said the same previously when we talked about it. But his was re sentiment, so his wife was very unsentimental and he was the one who kept all the baby keepsakes, the nursery drawings etc.

I really am thinking I need to take a look at myself!

Because they’re not continually being told that they are a failure if they don’t get it all perfectly right all the time (because that’s women’s job)

I feel guilty for some things that my dh doesn't feel guilty about. Such as not taking kids to the park or not spending enough "quality time " with them or not providing them with enough "enriching" opportunities. Or not doing enough playdates. Not giving them a balanced diet.all these things that my dh doesn't seem to worry about. He thinks every day life is enriching enough and having one parent around most of the day is enough quality time.

@Yohoheaveho ok but what if instead of us doing what men do, men do a little bit more do what we do, maybe take some of the worries away by having them themselves! Carrying a little of the mental/emotional load?

Or maybe you're right and it is important to look after number one as they have been socialised to do. Only problem being, when little children are involved someone does have to think of them too (not to sound like Ned Flanders wife 🤣)

I've been reading several books aimed at womens exercises and women's physiology lately, which have been really interesting.

I've read a few times that women are more prone to things like perfectionism, anxiety and depression because we blame ourselves for failures, while men are more likely to blame environments and other people.

These are huge sweeping generalisations I'm sure (and annoyingly the authors tend not to cite their sources, so I'm sure someone here will rightly leap at me). However its an interesting thought, and that sort of thing would apply here too - as in, mums blame themselves for not doing enough to prevent X, dads think "well if X hadn't happened, it would have been fine".

Society has this as the role for motherhood it just depends if you as an individual meekly accept how society would like you to be.

I have never felt like this, I have been accused of being like a man many times, like it’s a bad thing. This is because I still see my self as an individual with my own wants and needs. I remember going out for my birthday with my women friends. Six of us in total and three of us has small dc all around reception age. I had known these women before they had dc. The other two had become totally child centred people, it was like they had been subsumed in to one entity.

You need to really be asking why you have adopted the role society pushes women towards.

I'm F, had 2 DS, I've never felt mum guilt. I worked abroad for a bit too in Asia when they were young and DH was a SAHD and I have always been very career orientated. I don't understand why many women seem to succumb to what they perceive as social pressures either - I personally am not sure they exist. Do your own thing, live your own life.

@Kljnmw3459 this is exactly what I was trying to say! Those are my main things, that's what I feel guilty about and DH doesn't.

Men tend not to be quite so explicitly aware of their emotions as women are; it doesn't mean that they necessarily don't have them. Also, traditionally men have regarded their main role as being providers. Even now, when gender roles are (I hope) less distinct, men may be more likely to feel 'dad guilt' if their failure to earn sufficient money means that their children can't have the same possessions and opportunities as some of their friends, than if they don't spend enough time with their children.

but what if instead of us doing what men do, men do a little bit more do what we do

You must live in a very compartmentalised world OP. I think assigning sex to certain acts/emotions is just feeding into those stereotypes.

No-one has to do this. If you just take individuals as they are without expectations or assumptions according to their sex, you might find that people are just people and change your behaviour accordingly. That, in turn could lead to less anxiety.

I'd say societies expectations.
It takes minimal effort for men to be considered a great dad and husband, it takes minimal effort for a woman to be considered a bad wife and mom.

Whenever in here we read about a useless man, there is a comment asking why his mum hasn't taught him x or y. Like it was solely his mom's responsibility. Mom going to work early instead of a long maternity leave "how can You do that to the child?" Etc. All his adds up to what mums do wrong all the time

Men just aren't big thinkers. I know we're not supposed to say that but they're really not. They have other good qualities though.

Until men start having babies I think it will always be the case that women are more nurturing and therefore worry more. Don't shoot me down, Darwin started it! Yeah, things have moved on and we don't have to fit typical gender stereotypes. Of course I've seen men worry and cry over their DC but I've seen far more women do this.
I do think you should be kinder to yourself OP. It's natural to worry and obsess about everything when kids are young, it'll wear off to a certain degree as they get older.