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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you forgive your boyfriend if he said this to you?

291 replies

meganwildrose · 18/01/2021 16:16

Boyfriend of 2 years and I got into an argument last night over text messaging. I have a DD from a previous relationship who he is very good with. He comes on family days out, stays over etc. The argument started to become quite heated as he told me I was "chatting shit" so I said:

"Okay, with that I am ending the conversation here."

He then replies:

"Fuck off then, you're a joke. Go find another baby daddy."

I thought not only is this derogatory to me, but also to women and single parents in general.

I then said:

"Well at least I know what you think of me now."

He then said he was frustrated and shouldn't have spoken to me like that, it was rude and he is sorry.

I haven't spoken to him since, despite him sending two follow up messages.

AIBU to absolutely not forgive him and to think this is clearly an ingrained belief he has or else he wouldn't have said it?

OP posts:
TheOneLeggedJockey · 19/01/2021 03:38

Come on guys - who cares if he’s using the term ‘baby daddy’ incorrectly? Confused

It couldn’t be less the point.

Otter71 · 19/01/2021 03:49

How old are you both? All the quotes sound like the sort of thing my teenage kids would say to push boundaries. Personally unless there is more to it I would suggest talking to him about it as at the moment he is sounding like the biggest person.

OldGreyBoots · 19/01/2021 03:59

I've had arguments in the past that I've considered breaking up with DP about: but in none of them has he ever told me to fuck off or said anything like calling me a joke. Honestly, he sounds so nasty.

Mamanyt · 19/01/2021 04:30

@Jobsharenightmare

I think there are a number of issues here. This is a man who cannot argue with decency and respect. I have never been told to fuck off in all my years with my partner when we have argued or my late husband. That is not an acceptable way to communicate with me. I know some people have lower standards but I don't think that's a good thing.

Secondly, telling you that you are chatting shit because he disagrees with you. He sounds like a very immature man.

Finally the way he referred to you as a single parent I could not forget.

Thank you for saying so clearly what I was thinking. I have never been told to fuck off by a partner/spouse. And had I been, I'd have taken him at his word the first time and done just that.

There is a word for men who belittle a woman because they disagree with her. It is "boy." Who needs that?

And yes, saying that he was being used as a (ICK) baby daddy was highly disrespectful.

As has been stated several times already, when someone tells/shows you who they really are, believe them.

whatsthepointinwasps · 19/01/2021 05:11

Given your experience in your childhood, having your own child to care for combined with this man now showing his true colours i don’t think I would continue with the relationship. I would find it incredibly hard to trust him again after such disrespectful, degrading and hurtful words.
I’d be concerned also that by staying I might end up giving my child the same childhood experience I had.
Take care OP

Mummyoflittledragon · 19/01/2021 05:32

It sounds as if you’re looking for validation that it’s ok to end your relationship for what he sent you. I think you now have that having read the thread.

tolerable · 19/01/2021 05:41

tell him he was only a side guy,...n your bored of him now.then block

LadyInParis · 19/01/2021 06:26

ivfbeenbusy

Why must every minor fall out be documented on MN these days? Especially when this is an overwhelmingly female site it's obvious you are only going to get LTB advise?

Bully for you that clearly your boundaries and self awareness are so perfectly tuned that you never need ask advice on whether something is just an argument, or abuse. The aim of asking, in your words, “every minor fallout”, isn’t with the aim of getting ltb responses. It’s to check that the little feeling in the pit of your stomach, that says that this isn’t ok, but I doubt myself (often due to past abuse, or lack of awareness growing up I.e abusive parents, ad nauseam) so I want to check with other more wise and or experienced women, more often than not. And in such cases, these “minor” fallouts are often “documented” on mumsnet (a site for this very purpose as in the relationships board) because this niggle is part of a long standing history within the relationship, and abused women want to test the waters by asking smaller questions about the relationship that they don’t like first. Before diving right into an entire abuse history. They might also not even recognise all the things he has said or done in the past as abuse until they come here over one issue and more and more things are mentioned and it becomes clear the relationship is extremely abusive. This isn’t always the case. But I have seen it happen on here, a lot. A real lot from threads just like this one. So I’m happy for you that your self awareness and your instincts and your boundaries are extremely perfect that you’ve never needed to ask a seemingly small and silly question. Though the last paragraph suggests otherwise and I’ll get to that in a minute.

Obviously we don't know every word of the build up to the argument and yes when people argue they tend to say hurtful things. Doesn't always mean that they mean them

We don’t know every single part and nuance and context for any post on here. Does that make them all worthless? While it may be as you assume- he’s just blurted out angry words, it could alternatively be a pattern within the relationship, meaning she could be in an abusive relationship- or one that’s leading up to abuse. To add- Angry words are very telling. They aren’t just words said in anger- they demonstrate a particular viewpoint that is usually kept deep down and hidden, especially in cases like this of such derogatory wording toward females and single mothers. I get angry at my partner. I might say oh piss off (not proud believe me) but my words don’t include anything that gives any glimpse of things such as man hating or sexism or other horrible world views, because I don’t have them.

For what it's worth I don't think he was being deliberately derogatory about single mothers - perhaps that's your own insecurity coming through? Plenty of women refer to their children's fathers as "baby daddy's" and they are still in a relationship with them

In this context it’s rather different than a nickname of baby daddy is it not? It’s a word he has used in a disgusting context to make her feel worthless and shit. Stop minimising. Calling someone “my baby daddy” is very different from a man telling a woman to get another baby daddy in order to hurt and belittle her. It’s like my partner who plays with my jiggly belly- he loves it. I don’t I hate my jiggly belly, but I know he’s being genuine- he does love my curves. However if he used my jiggly belly in the context of an argument to belittle me, he would be out the door faster than he could apologise. So here I ask- in the context he used it and the reasoning for him using this term, and calling her a joke (in other words a pathetic worthless person, in his context), and telling her she’s chatting shit (dismissing her feelings, and her as a person, purposely, all purposely) this is ok to you? Cos he was angry? Do you not need to check your own standards?

He apologised and has tried to reach out to you more than once - let it go

Yes- the woman who has been told she is chatting shit. Is a joke. And to find another baby daddy. Should shut her whinging mouth and accept it and let it go Hmm

What were you taught growing up? Because this is all far from ok. And for you to come on here and complain that the post is here (why don’t you read another post instead of trying to police the questions of other women by the way? If it’s that annoying to you? I mean who are you exactly?) and then tell her to accept this shit, and shut up and put up cos the poor man has apologised now hasn’t he (after the damage is already done to her self esteem) is not quite right really. I would if I were you, question your own acceptance of this kind of abusive wording- rather than moaning about the OPs post and telling her to “get over it”. I don’t think you’re in any position to be giving advice if I’m honest, on what women should accept in relationships HmmConfused

Emeeno1 · 19/01/2021 06:36

Really? Do most of you posters really act in such a manner that you don't ever speak in anger or say things you later regret? (see the above poster).

You can accept what the world currently says, that everything that is not perfect is abuse, or you can look at what it is to be human and forgive.

Let he who is without fault cast the first stone!

TheOneLeggedJockey · 19/01/2021 06:49

Why is so hard to believe?

I married my husband because we’re compatible, get on well, love and like each other.

Why would I say unkind things I don’t mean to him, because we’ve had a disagreement over something?

Please explain.

LadyInParis · 19/01/2021 07:27

Emeeno1

Really? Do most of you posters really act in such a manner that you don't ever speak in anger or say things you later regret? (see the above poster).

My partner? No. My partner has never EVER said so much as fuck off during an argument. My abusive past partners have though. That’s why I’m marrying this one! He respects women. I have on the other hand, unlike him, had a traumatic past and had only had modelled to me abuse, violence and toxicity in many relationships (from my mother who was beaten black and blue so often she committed suicide, to other toxic family members who blamed me for her suicide - I was a regular (given my circumstances) 13 year old Hmm ) and I have borderline personality disorder, which makes controlling emotions, especially anger very hard for me. The mix of these two meant that for a long time (until I worked on my trauma and also controlling my disorder) that I was awful in the things I said. However the things I said were never deep seated sexist views. They were things like I hate you (fear of abandonment triggers making this a common phrase) etc. Never anything specific or personally degrading about his family or his life or abusive desires etc. While it is not an excuse and my behaviour at the time was disgusting, I was lucky enough to have a partner who worked through it with me. We would have a calm controlled conversation afterwards, lots of communication and research to understand how badly I made him feel. And for him to understand why I would lose it like that. Lots of love and understanding. And in time after much work, I never say anything beyond “oh piss off”. And I can’t remember the last time I said that. So no, no one is perfect, people do bad things, say bad things, it happens. The difference is the intent. I would never (when my disorder was or wasn’t present) say such personal hurtful things. His intention was to hurt and abuse her. My intention was to release the massive fear I had- to act like I didn’t care if he left me because I “hated him”anyway. I didn’t. Far from it, and in fact it was all self hatred and self sabotage. I was lucky. We worked through it together and now I control myself. This man the op is with- is abusive. He started with smaller verbal abuse. This has now escalated. And will escalate further. So the point here is 1) is she willing to accept the abuse for her and her daughter, especially since it is purposeful. My horrible behaviour resulted in such shame and self hatred for days to the point I would self harm and hurt myself and plan my suicide because I hated my behaviour and didn’t recognise that person I had behaved as and 2) she doesn’t have to accept any abuse for any reason and can leave. Just like my partner could have, when I was having episodes. So no, nobody is saying anyone is perfect. But his intent here is the important thing. And it’s clear his intent is to slowly push boundaries bit by bit, as he is doing. Until he can fully abuse her.

Should she not leave if she wants to? No one owes anyone a relationship. She could leave him because of his hair style if she wants. She is clearly so far choosing to leave him because her standards for a relationship are as high as they should be in order to protect herself and her daughter. It’s as simple as that really isn’t it?

You can accept what the world currently says, that everything that is not perfect is abuse, or you can look at what it is to be human and forgive.

Yes you can. But you don’t have to stay in a relationship with them. Both can exist together.

Let he who is without fault cast the first stone!

It isn’t a competition. It’s a sad world where we say this or that bad behaviour should be forgiven because other people behave worse. We all do terrible things or make mistakes (and learn from them generally). But we don’t have to beat ourselves with a stick and accept any old shitty behaviour just because nobody is free from mistakes and we have made them ourselves. Do we? My partner has never (to my utter astonishment given my past behaviour!) ever behaved badly to me, never swore nor said bad things, as he isn’t that kind of man. And when I am stable as I am now, after time and work, I am not that person either. So say my partner now began to behave horribly to me- is it acceptable because I cast the first stone? No, it wouldn’t be because it isn’t who he is. He knew how I was from day 1- I didn’t hide anything and I explained everything to him very early on so he knew what he was getting involved in. So if he suddenly decided to let his standards and respect for women slip, would it be ok and would I have to accept abuse because my trauma and mental health disorder (both uncontrolled at the time) were awful for him? Because that’s what you’re basically saying here. We all know that people aren’t perfect, that doesn’t mean they should accept others bad behaviour. Forgive and forget if they choose, sure. But live with it, commit to it, expose their child to it? No.

HeddaGarbled · 19/01/2021 07:31

There’s a difference between occasionally speaking in anger and saying things you later regret, and being deliberately nasty every time you have a disagreement, which seems to be the case here.

Wheresmykimchi · 19/01/2021 07:31

@Emeeno1

Really? Do most of you posters really act in such a manner that you don't ever speak in anger or say things you later regret? (see the above poster).

You can accept what the world currently says, that everything that is not perfect is abuse, or you can look at what it is to be human and forgive.

Let he who is without fault cast the first stone!

Yes, I said this earlier but I do. I don't think I'm perfect but I've never said nasty or spiteful, personal things to someone I love. I just haven't. And wouldn't.

That doesn't mean we don't argue or I'm wonderful. I just don't.

LadyInParis · 19/01/2021 07:43

TheOneLeggedJockey

Why is so hard to believe?

Indeed good question.

I married my husband because we’re compatible, get on well, love and like each other.

This too. Despite the episodes I had, me and my partner (fiancé) when things were normal and calm, loved and respected each other, I would have an episode, and then afterwards we would, through love and kindness and respect, communicate and make sure it was resolved. In fact, if not for the love I have for this man, and the love he has for me, I don’t know if I would ever have had a reason nor such motivation to get well and make sure I treat him as he deserved to be treated- mental health or not. You can’t control mental health issues. Having them I mean. But you can control your reaction to them, get help, get better, and we loved each other so much that I did. He gave me a reason to love myself enough, to care that I got well, prior to him I didn’t give a shit and always thought I’d end up committing suicide like my mum anyway. This relationship is the best thing that ever happened to me. He showed me true love, and he showed me how to love myself. And I didn’t want to behave so horribly to him. So I got help. And now life is happy. Full of love and mutual respect and kindness. We are due to marry now because we are in the right place to do so. We don’t talk to each other like the ops partner. We don’t even argue anymore really. Bicker, not argue. He saved me, and for that I will love and commit and respect him for the rest of our soon to be married lives. So as below-

Why would I say unkind things I don’t mean to him, because we’ve had a disagreement over something?

This?

Please explain.

Please do.

Ours was an odd situation I admit. However the point still stands doesn’t it. I love him, I think he’s brilliant, and funny, and so clever and intelligent, so calm and gentle, just a wonderful man. Now that my mental health is under control, why would I be cruel just because we disagree on any given point?

CodenameVillanelle · 19/01/2021 07:44

@Emeeno1

Really? Do most of you posters really act in such a manner that you don't ever speak in anger or say things you later regret? (see the above poster).

You can accept what the world currently says, that everything that is not perfect is abuse, or you can look at what it is to be human and forgive.

Let he who is without fault cast the first stone!

I don't talk to my partner like that. I don't talk to anybody like that.
LadyInParis · 19/01/2021 07:55

Emeeno1

Really? Do most of you posters really act in such a manner that you don't ever speak in anger or say things you later regret? (see the above poster).

Oh and if anyone followed our story so far and my long posts (sorry for the rants!) it was me this poster was referring to, a perfect example of a far from perfect person who loved and respected her partner enough to finally embrace and accept love, to finally get help, to finally learn I was worth the breathing space I previously thought I didn’t deserve, with the same wonderful man I have, on this thread, openly and at length admitted to being horrible before I got help. Thus showing that the above poster doesn’t seem to understand that in normal circumstances, people in relationships are kind to each other, and that alternatively; people who have deep and horrific issues and behaved terribly, also learn and get better and treat their partner kindly and with respect, when their mental health is not affecting their true personality. My true personality has always been kind. Episodes aside. Now they are being dealt with, they don’t occur.

So there are two opposing examples of relationships where people are able to, even in extreme circumstances, treat each other kindly.

I’d like to know where abusive nasty language falls, in the love and respect category?

sonjadog · 19/01/2021 08:32

Really? Do most of you posters really act in such a manner that you don't ever speak in anger or say things you later regret?

No, I don't swear at people and call them nasty names in arguments, and I won't accept the behaviour a in partner either. I had a couple of boyfriends when I was younger who swore at me and it was the end of the relationships. I have had many more relationships with men who have not sworn at me, no matter how angry they might be or how heated the argument. There are plenty of men who do not feel the need to swear at women. Don't think it is what everyone does. You don't have to accept this behaviour.

Whatwouldyourmamado · 19/01/2021 08:36

@ladyinparis I have just given you a mental round of applause

Rant or not it is so refreshing to read something that makes perfect sense, written to eloquently and that oozes calmness.

I hope you and your fiance have a long and loving relationship.

I have also had abusive relationships in the past and made to feel worthless etc.. my now husband is the opposite of all those men and is so loving and gentle but we have rows and i have used unpleasant words when my anxiety has got the better of me but he is so understanding and kind that we work through it.

OP this man doesnt sound like the right one for you and your daughter. Love yourselves and love will find you

VinterKvinna · 19/01/2021 08:38

@Daisysflowers

Definitely a red flag. I would end it. For me it would be No going back after a comment like that!
Really?

When you're having an argument you say things you don't mean. If the rest of the relationship is good, you would end it over a sentence?

VinterKvinna · 19/01/2021 08:41

@Biscuits25

Fuck him off! He talks like a 12 year old!
Fuck him off?

And you say he talks like a 12 year old. Hmm

I just said above, if this is a pattern of behaviour then yes, it could be the last straw. But if its a one off, and said in the heat of the moment, then I wouldn't get too worried.

Op, what is the relationship like normally (and in other stress points)?

isitsummertimeyet · 19/01/2021 08:41

stuff gets said in the heat of an argument, but if you ran from relationships whenever this happened then everyone would be single forever.

people argue, hell me and the wife argue but still love each other, doesnt mean he has some sublime hatred for single mums.

hes appoligized and messaged twice after, either cut him loose or accept the appoligy, Ive seen many of the women on here saying LTB to every single post they type, men hating types, they will end up dying lonely with there cats.

Ricebubbles2 · 19/01/2021 09:25

Talking like some want to be American gangster using Baby daddy is cheap and nasty.
Why the world follows such tacky talk and lingo disturbs me!
The guys a moron
Many men will value you being a parent not undermine and cause you to feel bad or ashamed.

Ricebubbles2 · 19/01/2021 09:28

@ivfbeenbusy

Why must every minor fall out be documented on MN these days? Especially when this is an overwhelmingly female site it's obvious you are only going to get LTB advise? Obviously we don't know every word of the build up to the argument and yes when people argue they tend to say hurtful things. Doesn't always mean that they mean them 🤷‍♀️ .

For what it's worth I don't think he was being deliberately derogatory about single mothers - perhaps that's your own insecurity coming through? Plenty of women refer to their children's fathers as "baby daddy's" and they are still in a relationship with them

He apologised and has tried to reach out to you more than once - let it go

But the "fuck off your a joke" is ok Baby daddy's for morons in America not the Uk nor trying to be such Poor kids raised by morons talking like morons
CaveMum · 19/01/2021 09:34

Why do people keep saying it was “said in the heat of the moment”? Surely it’s a very important point that it wasn’t “said” it was put in a text.

He thought it, wrote it out and hit send. He had ample opportunities to check himself and think for a moment whether what he was saying was appropriate.

Nanny0gg · 19/01/2021 09:42

@meganwildrose

He quite often will get aggressive with his words, never with his actions though. He's told me to fuck off, told me to shut up, quite a few times though. Face to face and over text message.

He has never insulted me with name calling in this way before though.

Wow! What makes you put up with that?