I had to cut short my weekly food shop and pick DC up from nursery because he wouldn't nap..

[Halfaweeklyshop]

I work PT usually but I'm home for the foreseeable because my place of work is closed due to covid.

I do my weekly shops on a Monday now when my eldest (3) is at nursery until 4.30

1.15pm I get a call from the nursery asking me to pick DS up, I'm in the middle of Sainsbury's at that point half way through my shop and miles away.

They wanted me to collect him ASAP as he was refusing to nap with the rest of the children (they all nap in the afternoon) and because he didn't want to sleep he was having a meltdown and disrupting the others.

I had to pay for what shopping I had in the trolley, half of what I needed, and walk the 2+ miles from the shops to nursery to pick him up early with my baby in tow who I was going to put down for a nap at home after the shop.

AIBU to think this was a bit shit and they could have just taken him out of the sleep room and done an activity with him / played a video with one of the several staff members on? So the other children could nap interrupted.

Was it really necessary to have me pick him up early?

I've also been asked to pick him up at 2pm again tomorrow, because they don't want the same thing happening again.

It's a good job I am off work at the moment as there's no way I could make a habit of this, I'd get the sack.

Thoughts?

I’d have finished my shopping.

I haven’t read the full thread, just skimmed the updates but this is insanity and the nursery has completely failed in their duty of care to your son, I.e. to respond to his individual needs. A minority of three year olds nap, it’s really quite unusual.

And if it hasn’t been pointed out already, nurseries aren’t meant to claim council funding for children that aren’t in. That’s why childminders and nurseries are still asking parents to pay if they choose not to send kids in at the moment, because they can’t claim their funding. So it might be worth enquiring with the nursery what steps they will be taking with regards to the funding arrangements for the hours they have refused him care. Might put the wind up the manager at least.

But in any case I would withdraw my child from this batshit institution, this isn’t what quality childcare looks like and I wouldn’t trust a nursery that would behave in such a bizarre, inappropriate and unprofessional way.

Nuts.
My first child stopped napping regularly at 18 months old (just in time for next coming). He did if tired but not at a set time, he’d more just wander to corner and doze off. Nursery had also stopped regular naps when moved up around age 3 to big room and those who needed naps or tired they took out.

As a childminder I would never dream of phoning a parent because a child wouldn’t have a nap! I’m so surprised to read of other settings phoning other parents for ridiculous reasons, it would never occur to me to do so!
FWIW, I’ve got 3dc of my own. They stopped napping at 2.75, exactly 2 and 4.75, so a real mix of ages and I’ve had childminded children drop their nap at anything between about 2 and when they have started school at nearly 5. Anything in that range is normal, but I’m more surprised by a three year old who does nap than one who doesn’t. Id be livid with nursery, I can’t imagine having to tell my employer that I had to leave work to collect a non napping 3 year old and I would be making sure that the nursery knew that the situation could not occur again, if they can not deal with his meltdown (especially as his nursery should be more adept at dealing with that kind of behaviour) I would be questioning their ability to cope with other situations too.

as a parent with an older child with ASD, they mishandled this completely.

They changed his routine (jane not usual person) then rather than remove him from the sleep room and give him chance to come down from his meltdown and see how he went, they just gave up and called you to collect.

Ok, so once he'd hit meltdown, they SHOULD have given him chance to chill out, help him regulate and see how he went, then called you, explained in detail what had happened, and then allowed the two of you to discuss an action plan.

I used to deal with this shit with his school, in the end i told them that i wouldn't come and get him immediately unless it was an emergency, because he began to associate having a meltdown with getting to come home (Where he preferred to be)#

You need to tackle the nursery over the 2pm thing and lay out an action plan.. if he doesn't nap, they need to remove him from the sleeping room and find him something else to do. IF his behaviour/emotional well being is still not good, then they can call you and discuss what YOU think is best.

If you'd don't think they are good enough for you to up his days then surely they shouldn't have him at all ?

Dear goodness remove him!!

overtired is not a reason to collect a 3 yr old from nursery. Its bloody common for kids that age to refuse a nap even if they could do with one and they surely should be able to handle it.

They should have managed taken him away from the other children then managed the meltdown as they would any other, and provided a quiet activity eg an audio book etc.

They are childcare staff and need to deal with him even if his behaviour has more demands on their time/is trickier than the children who nap.

That is very shit. Our nurseries they haven't napped after 2. Why are they still napping at 3? Are they going to make them nap until 4/5?!

Thank you for all of the replies, it's a relief to see that it's unanimous.

I wasn't planning on upping his days in the first place as the long walk 4 times a day is too much to commit to, plus when I'm back at work it just wouldn't be possible. The 2 days pw worked ok for me and was a good balance. This today confirmed to me that i'd made the right decision.

It's not that I think they're not good enough for me, I'm not an uppity parent, I'm fairly laid back.

There has just been a handful of issues I've felt strongly against which forms a bigger picture, that it's probably not the best place for him long term.

I like them, I'm sure their intentions are good, I just don't think they take into account DS' individual needs.

You misunderstand. What I mean is if you don't want him there more days, as per page one, then why do you want him there at all? It read like you don't want to send him there more days because of their actions today.

That’s terrible! I work in a nursery that takes children from their 2nd birthday. We don’t have a nap time. Occasionally a child will fall asleep which is fine but it’s a pretty rare occurrence.

@SunshineCake

You misunderstand. What I mean is if you don't want him there more days, as per page one, then why do you want him there at all? It read like you don't want to send him there more days because of their actions today.

Ah I'm following yes.

Well aside the issues DS really enjoys it there, he has formed friendships which has just blown me away as prior to starting he wasn't interested in other children at all.

He has built a lovely bond with two of the nursery assistants who genuinely seem to love him back, perhaps love is a strong word but they're extremely fond of him and get almost as excited as I do when he learns something new.

He has come a long way since starting there less than a year ago and has gone from being non verbal (bar a couple of colours and numbers) to being about to request things and say what he wants. He can count to 30 and knows his ABC off by heart. He has broader interests.

With the above in mind I've felt very conflicted.

Their attitude is appalling especially their treatment of a child with SEN. I work as a learning support assistant and I am a parent to a young adult with autism. I recommend that you become very familiar with the SEND code of practice and also the SEND Guide for Early years settings. It is their obligation to make reasonable adjustments for a child with SEND and they are not allowed to discriminate against a disabled child.
Since September 2014 local authorities, educational settings etc including private nurseries must follow this code of practice. It is not optional.

From your outline op it looks like that their practice today contributed greatly to your son's meltdown.

I participated in a free course on Understanding Autism(open university) earlier this year. www.open.edu/openlearn/science-maths-technology/understanding-autism/content-section-overview
If you have the time it is a brilliant informative course for anyone with an autistic child or those working with those on the autistic spectrum.

Do a special needs nursery can't handle an autistic child having a meltdown? That's nuts. Surely that's why he is in a special nursery, so that they can cater to his needs?

@taeglas

Their attitude is appalling especially their treatment of a child with SEN. I work as a learning support assistant and I am a parent to a young adult with autism. I recommend that you become very familiar with the SEND code of practice and also the SEND Guide for Early years settings. It is their obligation to make reasonable adjustments for a child with SEND and they are not allowed to discriminate against a disabled child. Since September 2014 local authorities, educational settings etc including private nurseries must follow this code of practice. It is not optional. From your outline op it looks like that their practice today contributed greatly to your son's meltdown.

I participated in a free course on Understanding Autism(open university) earlier this year. www.open.edu/openlearn/science-maths-technology/understanding-autism/content-section-overview
If you have the time it is a brilliant informative course for anyone with an autistic child or those working with those on the autistic spectrum.

Thank you for that, I'll look into both suggestions.

Admittedly I do feel out of my depth alot of the time. It's all so new. For DS sake I need to educate myself as best I can so I can be the best advocate for him.

That's nuts!! I'd be asking for a refund on those hours too!

It sounds like parts of the nursery have been good for him but you need to be 100% happy and it is ridiculous to already demand you collect him early tomorrow. They clearly aren't going to see how it goes, "give him another chance."

Oh they sound shit. So sorry op

I don't have any idea about Sen but as they advertise it I would expect them to be able to handle it better

Do you have any local support groups for sen parents? Or a Facebook parenting group? Just to get some advice and maybe some hints for a more suitable place.

I wouldn't be happy with their attitude frankly.

Dd is on the ASD spectrum (mainstream crèche picked it up when she was 4). She was in crèche full time as we worked, but was a sleep refuser from 2ish. Even before leaving toddler room to Montessori room.

What they used to do with those few (not just dd) who didn't nap was let them go to toddler room if they weren't also napping, or else have quiet time with books and colouring in in the corridor right outside monti room (small crèche so no spare room but teacher could supervise them and those napping, but it was a cul de sac space so they weren't causing obstruction there).

I used to work in mainstream private nurseries. We often had children with additional needs, or an the autistic spectrum. It sounds like your specialist nursery don’t really know what they are doing. Did you have him in a different nursery prior to this?

Thank you for the replies all!

This is his first nursery placement. We made inquiries with two others before enrolling him here and both felt that this one was the best fit.

DH has taken him in this morning, he's under strict instruction by me to make it clear I'll not be picking him up at 2pm and if there are any issues with sleep refusal then separating him from the nappers is sufficient.

Given that the nursery felt able to cut his hours by 5 hours in total this week (2 1/2 yesterday and again today) I've asked DH to revisit the subject of him starting later, considering these funded hours are so flexible after all.

I've asked him to take the reigns today as I'm just a bit fed up of it all.

I'm in a handful of ASD support groups and there are some local resources I can tap in to aswell, covid has meant there is a temporary pause on anything in person but I have been signposted to a couple of organisations that I can email/call.

I would seriously consider speaking to the early years coordinator for your local authority OP. They certainly shouldn’t be cutting funded hours short for this reason, nor should they be imposing such strict routine.

If you don’t get anywhere with the nursery I would also consider speaking to Ofstead, in my experience they would not be impressed with this sort of thing!

DH is just as annoyed as me now.

He dropped him off this morning and tried to speak to the nursery manager about the issue and raise the subject of making reasonable adjustments.

She was in a rush to get him out and said we'd talk on Thursday which is her designated admin day. As she was walking off with DS into the hall she called back to DH "see you at 2 o clock"

He thinks she's far too bossy and it's like she's running her own "autistic childrens military"

He echoed what some posters here have said about how its ridiculous to assume you can have the same expectations for all of the children there regardless of their age or individual abilities.

This may not sound very PC we have both made a similar observation in that DS appears to be one of the lowest functioning children there in terms of emotional regulation and sensory issues. We haven't reached that conclusion flippantly.

They had a Christmas party in December and when we arrived DS was hiding in the corner of the hall with his ear defenders on looking stressed. The rest of the children were happily jumping up and down to the music the DJ/entertainer was playing,
chasing the bubbles and foam.

They know DS has a high degree of sensory processing difficulties but failed to consider that when having a loud party with a DJ booth and loud singing.

I'm starting to think we've let him down badly by giving them the benefit of the doubt and keeping him there despite there being some positives in terms of his progress.

We're now discussing getting him at 2pm and telling them he's not coming back.

I'll consider approaching OFSTED yes.

Ironically, I could quite imagined the N.M raising concerns about us because we've had such different views to her on a handful of subjects now.