Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think DH is being ridiculous to not eat this?

323 replies

Shushpuppy · 17/01/2021 14:59

Mushroom pie with instructions on packet to cook from chilled and to defrost in the refrigerator. I'm running out of time so defrosted on counter. He found packet and is now moaning and refusing to eat it because it might give him food poisoning. AIBU to think he is being absurd?

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 18/01/2021 10:45

You’ve Been Defrosting Your Food All Wrong — Here’s How to Do It Right

One wrong move could give you food poisoning
How do you defrost your food before you cook it? There are a few popular methods — only some of which are safe. One popular method is specifically warned against by the Food Safety and Inspection Service at the U.S. Department of Agriculture: thawing on your counter.

Though it’s common practice to leave a hunk of frozen meat on your counter for a couple hours before cooking dinner, this method could put you at risk of getting food poisoning. Why? Because foodborne bacteria is more likely to grow at room temperature. So any perishable food left out on the counter for more than two hours is at risk. That’s why eating pizza you left out overnight is a bad idea. It could make you sick.

The USDA also warns against defrosting in a garage, basement, car, dishwasher or plastic garbage bag. Thawing foods by leaving them outdoors is also unsafe.
www.thedailymeal.com/cook/defrosting-food-guide-gallery

SchrodingersImmigrant · 18/01/2021 10:48

Who defrosts in a dishwasher😂 I love that that's included in the warning

bobbojobbo · 18/01/2021 10:48

Honestly, please for your safety and that of your children do not defrost things on a counter or bench or windowsill at room temperature. It is not safe

Honestly, go away with your advice. If you are completely unable to understand the rules and safely adapt them, you are the one who needs the government advice. Those of us with eyes, taste, smell and a brain can managae perfectly well without your "help".

PlanDeRaccordement · 18/01/2021 10:51

What a micro-biologist has to say...

“Is there still viable (living) bacteria on a frozen chicken?
Posted on August 27, 2015 by Dr. C
Can bacteria survive the freezer?

Bacteria will freeze along with the food they are on when they are stuck into a freezer. The pathogenic bacteria on foods that cause human disease are primarily mesophiles or organisms that grow best at around 37 degrees Celsius. In a freezer at -20 degrees Celsius, their bacterial enzymes cannot function because the water inside the cell has frozen, so they cannot grow. It has been reported that if you put a raw chicken into your freezer (considered a slow freeze), you may reduce the number of bacteria by approximately 90%. This is primarily due to the formation of ice crystals in the bacterial cytoplasm which then ruptures the bacterial cell wall and kills the cell, reducing the number of viable bacteria. In many food processing plants, food is flash frozen in a way that fewer ice crystals form in the food so more bacteria survive as well (up to 70 percent survive as opposed to 10 percent).

So the problem is the exponential growth capacity of bacteria. If the food is thawed improperly, (at room temperature) surviving bacteria on the surface can quickly reproduce to pre-freeze levels (USDA source). So when is this a problem?

Let’s use chicken as an example food. In a Consumer Reports article in 2013, chicken from retail stores around the country were tested and Salmonella was found on 10.8 percent and Campylobacter on 43 percent of all samples tested. Just this spring in the UK, they tested over 4000 samples and found that 73 percent of all chicken tested were positive for Campylobacter. Worse yet, of those, 19 percent were deemed heavily contaminated. So even ten percent of these organisms on the thawed bird would be a serious contamination issue.

The other way that we know that bacteria survive freezing is just to check the news and the various outbreaks of illnesses linked to frozen foods. There was an outbreak in March, 2013 of E. coli O121 that sickened 24 people in 18 states linked to frozen chicken quesadillas. The most recent outbreak is actually ongoing, where they have linked raw, frozen, Stuffed Chicken Entrees by Barber Foods to a Salmonella outbreak that has sickened 9 people in four states. Not only have these people become seriously ill, but the CDC identified that the strain of Salmonella responsible for the outbreak is a multi-drug resistant strain impervious to both tetracycline and ampicillin.

Best case practices in the case of contaminated foods? For pre-cooked food such as the quesadillas, reheat according to directions on box. Bacteria are killed by reaching temperatures of 165F, even muti-drug resistant bacteria.

For raw food, such as chicken, make sure to use aseptic technique when handling the food. Don’t touch surfaces of the kitchen with hands that have come into contact with the bird. Watch where the juice from the thawed chicken lands (it will be full of viable bacteria). Don’t wash your chicken in the sink, it aerosolizes the bacteria, and they may land on other surfaces that you are not aware of. NPR had a nice overview of what to do if you want to brine your chicken or marinade,-just remember that this fluid has bacteria in it and be careful when you are pulling the chicken out as to where the water droplets go. Thaw food in your refrigerator, in cold water, or in brine.

I always have a dish of hot soap water ready and wash my hands a lot when handling raw chicken. I turn on my faucet to wash my hands with my arm. Washing hands with soap is sufficient to prevent contamination. I also have my sink empty and all counter surfaces clear so that if anything DOES land there, it is a simple soap and water clean up.”
microblogology.com/is-there-still-viable-living-bacteria-on-a-frozen-chicken/

SchrodingersImmigrant · 18/01/2021 10:52

Mate, you remind me of another poster now, I actually haven't seen for a while who kept copying whole chunks of text into posts.
Link is fine fgs

PietariKontio · 18/01/2021 10:57

@bobbojobbo

Honestly, please for your safety and that of your children do not defrost things on a counter or bench or windowsill at room temperature. It is not safe

Honestly, go away with your advice. If you are completely unable to understand the rules and safely adapt them, you are the one who needs the government advice. Those of us with eyes, taste, smell and a brain can managae perfectly well without your "help".

Are you suggesting that you can always see, smell or taste bacteria in food that could harm you? Cos you can't.
HitchFlix · 18/01/2021 11:00

you’ve been socialised to think it is safe, but that is peculiar to the British. It’s one of the disgusting habits that shocked me when I lived in U.K. along with washing dishes in a tub of soapy water with food bits floating about and not rinsing them before putting them in the drying rack. Blergh.

It's not peculiar to the British. I'm not British and I always defrost on the counter. I tried defrosting my turkey in the fridge this Christmas as I had people coming to stay and thought they may be similarly weird if they saw it on the counter. Yeah, we didn't have turkey for dinner... won't make that mistake again!

Have to agree with you on the basin in the sink thing though. I couldn't wrap my head around that at all 🤢

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 18/01/2021 11:12

I'm surprised I've made it to 45, defrosting on the side, cutting mould off cheese so I can eat the rest, eating out of date food if it smells and looks OK!

PlanDeRaccordement · 18/01/2021 11:14

@bobbojobbo
If you are completely unable to understand the rules

The rules say do not defrost perishable foods at room temperature full stop. It’s not me that is not understanding the food safety rules.

bobbojobbo · 18/01/2021 11:14

Are you suggesting that you can always see, smell or taste bacteria in food that could harm you? Cos you can't

No, if you read what I said I am not suggesting that.

bobbojobbo · 18/01/2021 11:17

The rules say do not defrost perishable foods at room temperature full stop. It’s not me that is not understanding the food safety rules

The rules are written for the lowest common denominator. For people who can't work out the simplest things for themselves and need to be spoon fed. Like yourself.
For those of us with critical thinking skills, what we do is understand the science and the temperatures and the risks, and we adapt to safely doing as required within the meaning of the guidelines.

I'm sorry that you can't do that, you must struggle a lot with such things. But best not to advise others in that case?

PlanDeRaccordement · 18/01/2021 11:27

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Mate, you remind me of another poster now, I actually haven't seen for a while who kept copying whole chunks of text into posts. Link is fine fgs
Ok, I’ll cut back on text. I experienced on prior threads that people don’t even click on links. So I’d post a link and someone would be like, you’re talking out your arse. And I’d be ? because I’d have posted a link with a perfectly good source.
iklboo · 18/01/2021 11:28

US food safety regulations are far below UK ones. Plus the mean temperature differential between the countries. You can't draw exactly the same parallels.

PlanDeRaccordement · 18/01/2021 11:29

@bobbojobbo
what we do is understand the science

All your insults to me aside, are you seriously saying you understand the science better than a Dr in microbiology? Because I posted what one of them had to say, and it was never defrost at room temperature.

PlanDeRaccordement · 18/01/2021 11:30

@iklboo

US food safety regulations are far below UK ones. Plus the mean temperature differential between the countries. You can't draw exactly the same parallels.
Room temperature is more constant between countries because humans are humans no matter how hot or cold the outside weather is.
SchrodingersImmigrant · 18/01/2021 11:32

Just an fyi, Uk food standards agency tells business that you can defrost in a room temp if absolutely necessary (follow instructions from manufacturer) but no manufacturer will write on that it's ok though, because people are generally not as smart (eg. defrosting in dishwasher😂) so it would open them to lawsuits from people leaving chicken in 25 degrees for 17 hours...

bobbojobbo · 18/01/2021 11:34

All your insults to me aside, are you seriously saying you understand the science better than a Dr in microbiology? Because I posted what one of them had to say, and it was never defrost at room temperature

No, I'm not saying that at all. Do you have issues with reading comprehension as well?

iklboo · 18/01/2021 11:35

As someone who needs a map to find my kitchen, and who has only ever eaten a Linda McCartney pie cooked by somebody else - can I ask why you wouldn't use the Defrost setting on the microwave to defrost a mushroom pie?

Because not everyone has a microwave. Or a dishwasher either.

bobbojobbo · 18/01/2021 11:36

Room temperature is more constant between countries because humans are humans no matter how hot or cold the outside weather is

Oh dear lord. Yes, humans are humans no matter the weather, but room temperature in some countries is a lot higher than in other countries. And room temp in homes differ very much within countries.
Painful that you need this explaining.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 18/01/2021 11:39

Myndefrost settings on microwave basically cook that meat. Godforsaken thing

Oneearringlost · 18/01/2021 11:39

@RunnerDuck2020

Can you even get food poisoning from mushrooms?! Wink I always defrost things on the side and often end up cooking from partially frozen anyway, as I never remember to get things out early enough to allow time for them to defrost in the fridge! Not made anyone ill yet Smile
Indeed! What part of a mushroom pie would give you food poisoning? Meat, fish and sometimes rice but honestly, what else, if it's your own food, and not, say a catered buffet where you don't know about cross contamination from aforementioned ingredients, there is not going to be any harm
PlanDeRaccordement · 18/01/2021 11:42

@bobbojobbo

All your insults to me aside, are you seriously saying you understand the science better than a Dr in microbiology? Because I posted what one of them had to say, and it was never defrost at room temperature

No, I'm not saying that at all. Do you have issues with reading comprehension as well?

So what qualification do you have which shows you understand the science of microbiology better than a Dr of microbiology regarding the dangers of defrosting at room temperature?
PlanDeRaccordement · 18/01/2021 11:46

@bobbojobbo

Room temperature is more constant between countries because humans are humans no matter how hot or cold the outside weather is

Oh dear lord. Yes, humans are humans no matter the weather, but room temperature in some countries is a lot higher than in other countries. And room temp in homes differ very much within countries.
Painful that you need this explaining.

The real point is that no one keeps their home at the temperature of a refrigerator. The danger zone for food poisoning microbes starts at 40F or 4C. No one anywhere in the world keeps their home at 4C or lower. It is always warmer than that. The average British home temperature is around 17C.
iklboo · 18/01/2021 11:47

Thank you bobo that's exactly what I meant. Our house is markedly cooler than MIL's house. In winter you can set a jelly on the windowsill in my parents' kitchen. Polar bears complain FIL's house is too cold. Ambient temperature is not always the same.

bobbojobbo · 18/01/2021 11:49

So what qualification do you have which shows you understand the science of microbiology better than a Dr of microbiology regarding the dangers of defrosting at room temperature?

Oh dear. Where did I say I did? I told you that the Dr of microbiology is writing guidelines for the lowest common denominator, thats how guidelines work. For the people who don't know anything much at all. They don't write guidelines that encourage you to use your own sense, because of those that don't have any.

Some people, like you, need to be told exactly what to do and can't understand anything outside of that. That is who the guidelines are written for. That Dr of microbiology knows full well that most people can safely adapt the guidelines. I expect they do not defrost everything in the fridge either.

Swipe left for the next trending thread