To think remainers should have got behind mays deal

[Mysusie]

Just that really. Surely it would have been better to support a moderate brexit that she offered rather than supporting extreme positions such as that if the Lib Dem’s. Aibu to think it was an error not to sign up the the chequers deal?

Nobody that voted remain or leave has had any say in what has go on since the referendum.

Those that voted Tory in 2019 knowing what sort of Deal Johnson was likely to negotiate most definitely had a say. Time for you to own it.

Daphnise
Those who don't like it are no longer relevant, as we have left.
WTF? Who are you to tell people they're not relevant. We can still express an opinion. We can still complain. We can still point out the absurdity of Brexit. I expect you thought the suffragettes should have STFU when their first protests got them nowhere.

Because May’s deal was shit too. There is no deal we could have got that would have given us anything close to the benefits we had as members of the EU. Given the vote, I’d have reluctantly supported a deal that acknowledged its closeness, and that kept us in the single market and customs Union. Instead what we got was a shitty deal that nobody wanted or had asked for and the rest of the world is rightly laughing at us for being twats. May’s wouldn’t have been much better.

This developing narrative that the utter fuck up that is Brexit is the fault of remainers can get to fuck. You own this mess from beginning to end. It's only going to get worse. There has never been and will never be a deal that offers a fraction of the benefits that being a member state of the EU did.

Ah yet another person blaming those who didnt vote for Brexit for the Brexit we’ve ended up with.

Utter horse crap.

Geographically, the UK is part of the European continent. That’s nothing to do with being in the EU

Own your shit.

Peregrina

Those that voted Tory in 2019 knowing what sort of Deal Johnson was likely to negotiate most definitely had a say. Time for you to own it.

You assume that that I voted tory.

Something that I have never done.

It is so predictable
Didn't ya just know it
Bang and blame
No personal responsibility taken
It weren't me guv I didn't know I was voting for this

@unmarkedbythat

Nobody that voted remain or leave has had any say in what has go on since the referendum.

We've had two general elections since the referendum.

Neither were based solely on Brexit.

Op seems bit quiet

@Lonelycrab

Op seems bit quiet

Weird isn’t it

Change name or sign up for the first time on mumsnet and make a goady post

So strange...

@Thankyouforwatchingbyebye

I am waiting for one of you to tell one a benefit , just one would do

The benefit that most cite (and that most remainers continually ignore despite being told over and over) is that we won’t have politicians from other countries imposing laws on our country that we can’t vote out.

I’m not saying I agree with that but I see the point. It’s ideological. They simply want our sovereignty back. They don’t want politicians we can’t vote out telling us what to do. Simple as that.

Ok I can see that, unfortunately we are going to throw out a lot of the good stuff to be able to buy a pound of bananas.

This developing narrative that the utter fuck up that is Brexit is the fault of remainers can get to fuck
Don't worry. There's not a chance that in the future people will look back at Brexit and think it was the fault of people who continually voted AGAINST leaving the EU in every election and in the referendum, however much Leavers may wish that were the case! People will know exactly whose fault it was.

Perhaps.

But if you are playing shoulda, woulda, coulda, why put the line at May's agreement?

What should have happened, and this WAS obvious at the time, was for May to act on the result of the advisory referendum by setting up a task force to come up with realistic Leave scenarios for a deal and no deal, then gone back to the public with a binding referendum asking voters to rate three options in order of preference: Leave with a realistically achievable deal, Leave with no deal, or Remain. This would not, despite the squeals of Leavers, be rerunning the original referendum, it would be taking an advisory referendum that was very light on Leave details and turning it into something solid and actionable.

Instead, she chose to "prove" her commitment to this advisory referendum by triggering article 50 with no planning or specific achievable outcome in mind, thereby putting the UK on a burning bridge that directly resulted in the uncertainly, backtracking and badly analysed compromises that have been such a hallmark of the past 4 years. (This is a polite way of saying chaos, which is a polite way of saying complete and utter clusterfuck that should have been avoidable for anyone with a higher IQ than a radish.)

@FoxyTheFox

Its no good blaming Remainers for this mess, perhaps Leavers should have more carefully considered the practicalities of leaving the EU before - oh, I don't know - actually leaving the EU?

The only people to blame for this shitshow are those who voted for it and those who instigated it.

Exactly.

Remainers can turn into Rejoiners but where do Leavers go now?
They can become rejoiners as well. Hopefully they won't be so easy to fool next time.

A friend who in recent years went from staunch Labour to born-again Tory will not hear a word said against Boris Johnson and refuses to accept any criticism of anything he does. Today I put it to her that May's deal was better. She disagreed.

Remainers should quite frankly have got behind Corbyn in the 2019 election.

There was no viable route to overturning the referendum result at any point. No real public appetite for a People's Vote and if there had been the Leave vote would have just been reconfirmed. Those pinning their hopes on that were deluded.

I'm as Remain as they come but the ultras on our side always underestimated the size and fervour of the Leave vote - it's why we lost in the first place.

The best-case scenario was the softest Brexit possible and one which paved the best way to rejoining in a few years - in the meantime winning the culture war for people's hearts and minds. That was what Corbyn's Labour offered.

But no, FBPE types had to fuck it all up by casting him as a rabid Brexiteer himself, sow division among any possible left-liberal alliance, feed into the right-wing scaremongering about Corbyn himself and ultimately shoot themselves in the foot.

So Leavers complaining about the deal? 🙄. You voted Brexit, you got Brexit. What's the issue? You wanted " your country back", and you got it.

Hardly the remainers fault, we didn't want it at all.

If your for or against, that women was set up to fail, I knew we would look back and think well actually.....

The only thing that was different between the two versions of the withdrawal agreement (Note, not a trade deal) was that May's deal featured and open ended backstop on Ireland and Boris' featured a fixed term regulatory alignment. As we have a trade deal, neither of these options is active.

Are people really suggesting that Theresa May with all her red lines would have then gone on to negotiate a substantially different trade deal with the EU in the end? We would still be outside the customs union and single market and so really it wouldn't make any difference.

This is just part of the historical revisionism by brexiteers who want to try and pass the buck for their shit decision in pushing for such a hard brexit and failing to build consensus. May or Johnson it doesn't make any difference really to the fact that businesses are now struggling because we are outside the customs union and single market. The only difference is that Boris was delivered with a large majority and a purge of remainers from the Tory party that meant that the passage of this deal and the final trade deal through parliament were much easier and there was zero need for any consensus with any remainers.

So I suppose you could argue that had remainers propped up May then they would have had a minority government that may have had to compromise, but also may (more likely) have just got so bogged down in trying to build a majority for each vote, with the erg holding the cards, that we would have ended up without a trade deal at all.

So, to answer the OP, no, remainers shouldn't supported May's "deal" as it was functionally no different to Boris's and propping up a minority government would have been a big risk in terms of leaving with no deal due to the erg's likely blocking tactics in such a scenario.

When we first joined the EU what where the negatives that happened roughly 5-10 years later....a lot!

But because it was so long ago people know no different.

In many many years from now I’m sure history will repeat all over again

2016 vote ~ nobody really knew what they were voting for
2017 GE ~ least worst option
2019 GE ~ Landslide for Brexit

You won, get over it

Yes. Instead of just accepting they lost and looking at the deal with a proper perspective and looking at pragmatically, I feel it was voted against just for the sake of it, to protest the outcome of Brexit itself.