To think remainers should have got behind mays deal

[Mysusie]

Just that really. Surely it would have been better to support a moderate brexit that she offered rather than supporting extreme positions such as that if the Lib Dem’s. Aibu to think it was an error not to sign up the the chequers deal?

What was her plan for Northern Ireland again in that deal....??

Plan for NI was to keep the whole of the UK in the CU until the technology was developed. Johnson and the ERG scuppered it.

So you won, get over it.

May’s deal was hard Brexit. She intentionally negotiated a deal that was open to a harder implementation by her hard right successor whom she knew to be imminent.

The ERG Tories always intended to ditch the CU as well as the SM, and they always intended to ditch NI. That was why the DUP eventually voted against her deal - because they realised that Johnson in particular was not a Unionist.

The ERG Tories actually wanted a version of managed no deal with some bilateral deals - but the EU refused. The EU only offered no deal with emergency measures on their own terms.

YABU. May's deal was not moderate, and no-one had the opportunity to get behind it or otherwise - there was no referendum on the deal.

And if Brexiters don't like what we've ended up with - well you voted for it. Own it and stop trying to blame the people who didn't vote for it.

Thank god they didn't and she got chucked out before she could do any more damage. She's a remainer, very worst person to negotiate our departure.

Just a reminder too - the ERG have voted through the deal Johnson did manage to get - in at least one case without bothering to read it. So don't try to blame a shit deal on Remainers.

@Darklingthrush

With hindsight yes, but at the time the majority of people were against Brexit (as they are now) so it didn't seem unreasonable to expect the government to take this into account and hold a proper referendum or propose a softer Brexit.

The majority of people were not against Brexit as the majority voted for it! In many areas of the country there is still a very clear majority in support of it even now. I agree that the referendum was badly set up and totally mismanaged but this constant claim that the majority wanted to remain is like claiming Trump won. The vote happened, the results were counted and I have said, from that point, the key was to move forward in the best way. Sadly too many intelligent and talented people who could have contributed to getting a far better resolution chose to fight it, undermine any potential positives and snipe from the side-lines, instead of respecting democracy and getting the best out of it

I opposed May’s deal because I knew precisely where it would be taken by her successor. Which is where we are now. This country always had the option of seeing the light and stepping out of the Brexit quicksand at any point right up to the election of Boris. The collective folly of everyone who voted for him are the bearers of the responsibility for the economic disaster heading our way.

It really is something to see the party of "fuck your feelings" in the states and the party of "we won, you lost, get over it" appealing now for unity and understanding in the most transparently self serving insincere manner possible.

And then pretending that the other side are actually the ones stoking division by not simply acting reasonably and being nice to them 😂😂😂😂

Two groups of people who fucked their country over and don't want to face the consequences

I didn't vote to leave, I thought it was a silly idea, own & solve the problems that you created.

Two groups of people who fucked their country over and don't want to face the consequences

Which is why they must be reminded at every turn of the screw, every throw of the dice, of where they've got us.

My late Grandmother went to her grave in the late 1980s still cursing Chamberlain, which I felt was odd as a teenager. As I've grown up, I've found that was quite a recent grudge compared to some.

My grandmother used to go on about how Stafford Cripps had let her down. I am not now sure why - she's been gone for 50 years.

But if you think about something like the Spanish Civil War, there is still a lot of bitterness still between families there.

Which is why they must be reminded at every turn of the screw, every throw of the dice, of where they've got us.

Especially, I would add, those who voted Tory in 2019 trusting in a liar and a cheat like Johnson to Get Brexit Done, and now wonder why he's betrayed them.

May's deal didn't go far enough for the majority of hardline brexiters. It was the ERG who pushed May out.

The mess of brexit can't be blamed on people who voted to remain.

Who all remembers Ken Clarke commenting that he had voted for Brexit more times than Boris Johnson had?

. Lots did.

Thank god they didn't and she got chucked out before she could do any more damage. She's a remainer, very worst person to negotiate our departure.

As if the current crowd have done a better job.

There was a moment for Remainers to take the wheel, but it wasn't in early 2019. It was in September when Boris Johnson was totally stuck and didn't even have enough support in the HoC to call an election.

At that point Team Remain could have united behind a temporary leader but failed. They could have continued to block Johnson's Brexit election, but were unable to sustain the truce between Labour, Lib Dems and the SNP.

When the election was called, the public just wanted an end to the wrangling. Tories and Lib Dems offered certainty. Labour wanted either a soft Brexit or no Brexit at all but at that point they had to decide!. Either "we'll arrange a quick, easy Brexit that changes very little" or "we''ll hold another referendum within a month of being elected" would have worked. But they couldn't decide whether to pass or shoot, and ended up tripping over their own feet and losing the ball.

No. Brexit means Brexit. The popularist vote won and we now want to reap the many significant benefits. Theresa May's deal was still Brexit.

We are not generally remainers now - I identify as a rejoiner for my UK citizenship but remain very firmly a European, as I shall identify in the census.

^
Nope. Still the fault of leave voters seduced by populist bullshit in 2016 then doubling down in December 2019.

We are not generally remainers now - I identify as a rejoiner for my UK citizenship but remain very firmly a European, as I shall identify in the census.

If it's an option.

It wasn't moderate at all.

Those who wanted Brexit need to own it and stop trying to shift the responsibility/blame onto those who didn’t. Grow up and sort your mess out.

If Brexiters do not like the way Brexit is turning out
maybe they should not have voted for it

Maybe you should own this utter shitshow yourselves and not blame people that wanted to remain in the EU for not voting for a deal hardliners didn't even want.

So much winning, eh? Get used to it.

I've read the thread and thought long and hard about the question.

Fuck off, all leavers own this, so then go fuck off some more, squared.