What am I hearing from nextdoor neighbours?

[worriedneighbour1]

DH and I moved into new home around a year ago. We have neighbours on one side; Husband, Wife and one DD (approx 8 years old).

Before the first UK lockdown, we'd frequently hear Wife and DD having morning screaming matches lasting 20 minutes or so, very regularly, maybe 3 times a week. DH reckoned it sounded like stressful school routine. It woke us up what feels like a million times.

Things quietened down for a bit, but have really taken off again in the last couple of months. We hear screaming/shouting/banging, almost every day or every other day. Especially upstairs in the mornings and evenings. The DD really screams and crys and sometimes sounds very worked up.

The problem is it's mostly all in another language so we can't tell if it's something like "I've told you a thousand times to get your shoes on!" or something worse.

It just sounds so alarming to me, especially when the husband joins in, which happens less often. Monthly perhaps.

We didn't have anything like this in my house when I grew up. Occasional tantrums and some arguing between DPs, but nothing like this and not almost every day.

DH and I dont have any DCs so are trying to figure out what's 'normal.'

I'm not aware of any learning difficulties. We don't know them very well at all with the language barrier, just friendly hellos over the fence.

AIBU to report it (to who!?) or could this be normal?

My DD used to have horrendous tantrums. Better now she is older, thank goodness. Sometimes we shout at each other.
Although I believe that it's, likely, a cultural and personality thing, I'd report it.

@Benjispruce2

OP I work in primary school. You are right to be concerned. Reporting means you’ve done your bit and child protection is EVERYONE’S duty. If you can find out which school she goes to (uniform?) then ring the headteacher and voice your concerns. They will know what to do.

I agree with this.

Or you could go round and offer support. Ask if everything is OK? It's hard to tell from your post if it is all day everyday or just once or twice a day. If the latter then it may just be as PP have said; the mother loosing her patience when DD refuses to do what she is told. I would only be concerned if it was multiple times a day. You mention it used to just be before school. I'm sure there are plenty of parents who end up shouting at their children to get them out of the door in time for school. Have you ever met the DD, seen her playing outside etc? Does she seem happy?

My dd used to get very worked up if she was tired and had to walk. She would scream, struggle and scream some more because she wanted to sleep. I have had the dubious honour of someone calling the police on one of her tantrums. They arrived and demanded to look around only to find her fast asleep! Not every disturbance is something. Some families do communicate by shouting. If you are worried, maybe try to see how the kids seem- happy, unhappy, clean, fed etc.

Pretty shocked at some of the comments. Seriously? The issue is not just that the child is screaming, which could be a tantrum or due to autism, it's that the mother is also screaming at the child and the child sounds distressed. If you think this is a normal thing to do every day for 20 minutes then you need help.

Jesus wept, I hoped that people's attitude to this would have changed since I was a child. We were screamed at, beaten, starved (so crying with hunger) and terrorised on a near-daily basis and no-one, not one person, did anything to help us.

It made me feel absolutely worthless.

I definitely would inform SS. Yes, a bit of shouting between parents and children is normal but not on this level, and it’s the fact that you said the little girl is always crying which is cause for concern. Better to be safe than sorry, you would never forgive yourself if you later found out this little girl was living in a bad situation. Go with your gut feeling.

I have a 5 year old, she screams when she's having her hair brushed, this is every single morning (at the exact same time before we leave) and when she gets out the bath in the evening. We tell her not to (as the neighbour's will hear!) but it doesn't work. No matter how gentle you are she will scream as if you are torturing her. I'm hoping our neighbour's who have 2 grown up children (one girl) realise we aren't in fact torturing her, we are just hair brushing. No one has knocked on the door yet so I assume they aren't concerned given we don't scream and shout at any other time of day.

Oh wow my teen is always screaming at us and we argue back sometimes. Perfectly normal in a lot of households. Depends on the child. In fact my laid back younger child (10) has started school refusing sometimes and that can be quite a distressing listen I imagine too when we're trying to get her out but she's our size!!

I wish someone had called SS out for me when I was a child...

Difficult.

I grew up like this. To the outside world my family were hardworking and “decent” people. At home, we lived in fear, to the point where by age 13, my older sister and I slept together for safety with a kitchen carving knife under the bed.

My father was a violent alcoholic and the abuse was endless. I used to hope someone would come and rescue us.

Neighbours spying on neighbours. Horrible. You have no idea what is going on. All you have heard is a noisy family in the mornings.

And if someone reported your DH for spying on the little girl next door - do you still think it would be harmless? "It may be completely innocent of course but we have seen him watching the little girl and we just wanted someone to check it out - you know - to be sure there was nothing untoward going on"

It is horrible when the Authorities visit. It is stressful and intimidating. You feel judged and on edge. No smoke without fire and all that. A record is made.

As other say - get to know them instead.

@Greenbks

Oh for gods sake. You don’t know of any learning difficulties including the situation and yet you want to report.

Child could be autistic or many other things you don’t know about. If you’re that concerned why not just have a chat with them

Even if the child is autistic, why is the mother shouting so regularly?

Why don’t you pop round and talk to them?

No I don’t think it’s normal for a family to shout at each other daily and a child to cry daily from their family interactions. How anyone things this is acceptable I’m not sure. Regardless of language/ SEN etc they are struggling and need some help.

I would report it to the nspcc and then Atleast you have done your bit.

If someone rings the police and reports TWO ADULTS shouting at one another the police grade it an emergency. That's two ADULTS far from the huge power dynamic between an adult and a dependent 8 year old. This is for a reason and a good one.
Ring the child's school and/or SS OP.

For those suggesting "please have a word with neighbours" please don't. When I was a teenager the neighbours politely checked in with my parents about the racket coming from our house. It just made my mother more furious with us. I wish the neighbours had instead expressed concerns to social services as it may have saved me from another three years of abuse before I could escape to university in another city.

I wish any one of the neighbours had reported the daily screaming and crying matches between me and my mum. Neighbours were quick enough to come to the door to complain and tell my mum to shut up, if they had raised their complaints to SS then I might have been spared a bloody childhood of beatings and abuse
This. This is all you need to read to understand why reporting something that seems beyond normal screams is important. If it stops one child from falling through the cracks it’s something worth doing.

I was reported once because my DS said to someone at school that we all slept on the floor in one room. It was awful. We had SS visit to check up. The truth - we were refurbishing upstairs and so we all slept in sleeping bags etc on the floor in the living room for a week or so while the rewiring/painting/re-carpeting was taking place. But that is on my record.

@FirstOfficerDouglas

I was reported once because my DS said to someone at school that we all slept on the floor in one room. It was awful. We had SS visit to check up. The truth - we were refurbishing upstairs and so we all slept in sleeping bags etc on the floor in the living room for a week or so while the rewiring/painting/re-carpeting was taking place. But that is on my record.

On your record? Don’t be ridiculous, this incident will have been completely disregarded.

No one should think twice about speaking to a social worker, if they are concerns about a child. Please don’t call it reporting. Reporting is entirely the wrong term, with unpleasant connotations.

Report, or "share your concerns". If there's nothing going on then no harm done.

Why would a child being autistic mean they can be shouted and screamed at?

I agree some languages can sound more aggressive than others, it could be this but a child shouldn't be crying this often.

Don't be embarrassed either, it's what we should all be doing to help stamp out abuse.

@TooManyDinosaurs1

I have a 5 year old, she screams when she's having her hair brushed, this is every single morning (at the exact same time before we leave) and when she gets out the bath in the evening. We tell her not to (as the neighbour's will hear!) but it doesn't work. No matter how gentle you are she will scream as if you are torturing her. I'm hoping our neighbour's who have 2 grown up children (one girl) realise we aren't in fact torturing her, we are just hair brushing. No one has knocked on the door yet so I assume they aren't concerned given we don't scream and shout at any other time of day.

And do you scream back at her? Because if you don’t, then that’s not a similar situation.

Better to report a potential safeguarding issue and it turns out to be nothing than to ignore it and potentially ignore something more serious.
I appreciate we are in the midst of a pandemic. But with many people forced into closer and more sustained proximity at home than they have previously been used to, this could be the point at which abuse slides under the radar as neighbours don't want to get involved in case they they are seen to be nosy or over-reacting.

OP hasn't been back to the thread, that always makes me dubious.

If this is real, I would give the school a ring if you know what school the child goes to. I would not ignore it.

I would definitely act on this. We all have a duty of care esp to minors and vulnerable.
It could be all the things mentioned but the bottom line is nobody knows apart from those involved. I would try to have a friendly chat with one of them immediately.Do they speak any English? Say something like I don’t mean to offend but can’t help but noticing...is everything ok.... etc
Go with your gut if there is any abuse going on here it must be investigated.