What am I hearing from nextdoor neighbours?

[worriedneighbour1]

DH and I moved into new home around a year ago. We have neighbours on one side; Husband, Wife and one DD (approx 8 years old).

Before the first UK lockdown, we'd frequently hear Wife and DD having morning screaming matches lasting 20 minutes or so, very regularly, maybe 3 times a week. DH reckoned it sounded like stressful school routine. It woke us up what feels like a million times.

Things quietened down for a bit, but have really taken off again in the last couple of months. We hear screaming/shouting/banging, almost every day or every other day. Especially upstairs in the mornings and evenings. The DD really screams and crys and sometimes sounds very worked up.

The problem is it's mostly all in another language so we can't tell if it's something like "I've told you a thousand times to get your shoes on!" or something worse.

It just sounds so alarming to me, especially when the husband joins in, which happens less often. Monthly perhaps.

We didn't have anything like this in my house when I grew up. Occasional tantrums and some arguing between DPs, but nothing like this and not almost every day.

DH and I dont have any DCs so are trying to figure out what's 'normal.'

I'm not aware of any learning difficulties. We don't know them very well at all with the language barrier, just friendly hellos over the fence.

AIBU to report it (to who!?) or could this be normal?

@JM10

My neighbours would say my children have no learning difficulties too, but dd1 has ADHD and it can be incredibly hard to get her to do anything. She is very emotional at times, there can be a lot of shouting and crying. She also loves to slam doors and stomp up the stairs, which share a wall with the neighbours. I'm sure they hear us 😳

Not saying it is all innocent, but just saying you wouldn't necessarily know if there were other issues.

But do you shout back at your dd? Does your dh join in? Shouting back at a child does not help calm down the situation, shouting at a child with ADHD or ASD does not make them do what you are asking them to do? I don’t understand why people feel the need to shout at each other, what does it achieve other than a angry stressed child.

“I don’t understand the people that are saying ‘this is normal’ and ‘the child may have ASD’. I have 2 dc with ASD but we don’t all shout at each other in the morning, in-fact I rarely shout at them at all because that would cause them more stress and probably make them cry/shout even more, dd2 has meltdowns but they involve her shouting, I never shout back at her. “

I should back at mine sometimes. I’m not proud of it and it doesn’t do any good but sometimes things are relentless and so difficult and there isn’t the option of just walking away. Last lockdown was awful but this time luckily for me he has a school place due to having a ehcp so things have been relatively calm for last few weeks (fingers crossed) but I’ve had quite a few posters on here saying we shouldn’t take the school place and am part of the problem for so many kids being in school, so whst are you supposed to do?

Sorry if this isn't completely on point, but assuming the child does not need to be taken into care (and I accept this is not yet known) is there any practical help that the Social Services offer families who are struggling with raising children or are guilty of bad parenting.
I understand that a shot across the bows can make parents realise they need to improve things, but apart from that what do the Social Services do?

I wouldn't personally go to social services, it sounds like normal tantrums. My daughter was similar when she was 4/5 and my neighbours called out the police at the smallest noise. It broke my confidence as a mum and now everytime my daughter makes a noise I get scared and have panic attacks. You could maybe inform the school your concerns, do you know which school the child attends? Just say I don't feel it is a concern for social services but could you please make sure all is okay. They won't be able to tell you what is going on or anything because its confidential.

Reporting someone innocent does a lot of harm. Social Services are likely to contact the school (how would you like taking your child into school knowing that?) and the GP. They are both likely to assume "no smoke without fire". And the neighbours will never be able to relax in their own home again, knowing that you can hear them and are trigger happy with reporting. It will seriously mess up their lives at what is obviously already a very stressful time.

Don't risk reporting it as abuse, it may turn out to be perfectly innocent. You say it's a foreign language so it might be a cultural thing, in some cultures violent arguments and screaming at the kids is more acceptable than it is here.

You would be reasonable to report it as purely a noise complaint though, they sound like horrible neighbours. If you report it as a noise complaint for screaming and shouting all the time, someone at the council may put two and two together and get social services involved anyway. Obviously if it's a cultural thing they won't take any action, but you will have a clean conscience.

It’s all very well and good that people are saying the child could be Autistic, ADD etc, hormonal too. However, OP has said it’s now daily screaming matches - both child and parent screaming and shouting. Parent to child, child in distress, banging etc - Daily

Now I don’t have an autistic child or a child with ADD etc but I’m sure I wouldn’t be shouting and screaming at my child daily and I’m sure that’s not the way to interact with your child if they are. If a parent with a child with these conditions are shouting and screaming at their child on a daily basis, causing their child to then sound distressed through the walls, that it’s causing concern to neighbours, then that parent needs help with their child. I’m sure it’s not ok to shout and scream at your child every single day regardless of a health issue.

OP, report to social services or at the least ring NSPCC. If there is a problem, this child needs help not to be shouted and screamed at daily and that may mean parenting skills, coaching or whatever for the parents not to shout and scream at their child every single day.

They sound like a dysfunctional family. I grew up in one and it was fucking awful.

Oh and I wish someone had reported us so I'd got some help

So according to the people on here, there seem to be no instances when it’s okay to report concerns. It’s no wonder that there are child abuse scandals where it turns out nobody did anything to protect a child who is later seriously harmed.

PSA: if you think it’s okay to scream at a child almost every day (whether or not that child has autism or other condition, but especially if the child does) your parenting is SHIT and you deserve some investigation because chances are your kid is terrified and distressed by it. It’s fine to lose your temper occasionally. It’s not fine to do it nearly every day and for a sustained period of time. If you think it is, then you are the one in the wrong. As an adult, I would be distressed if someone screamed at me daily. I wouldn’t think that was a healthy environment to live in. Why should it be different because it involves an 8 year old where there is already a power imbalance?

If you talk to adults who grew up with parents who screamed at them all the time, many of them label their childhoods as abusive. The parent might think it’s no big deal but it usually is for the kid.

What language do they speak? (My language is supposed to sound aggressive to outsiders even if spoken quietly.)

If you report, do not do it anonymously - stand by your word. If you are right all is fine, if not accept the consequences.

I'm amazed so many people think it is okay to scream at a child every day because the kid has autism or learning difficulties. If anything the opposite is true and is a big red flag that the parent is not coping.

Children and partners across the country suffer domestic violence every day and in many of those cases the sad reality is their neighbours, family members and friends all know and chose to keep out of it.

OP if you are worried about this child reporting it is the right thing to do.

I genuinely can't believe people are saying "don't risk reporting abuse" when the other side of that is allowing it to continue.

It could be gaming. Kids game a lot during the lockdown, refuse to do homeworks. It's difficult for both parents and children but I'd keep an eye.

To those saying the child could be autistic, why do you think that would make the parents scream at her?

If a man was heard to be shouting and banging at a woman it would be deemed abuse . Why is it difficult for a child? Poor kid , I would report with no hesitation.

• different

Thank you all so much for your views, it's been so helpful.

Just to address a few of the comments...

I can't just pop round and check on them, both adults don't speak English, at all. They can just about do "Hello" and "Have a good day". DD does speaks English.. I've thrown the ball back over the fence a few times and had the briefest of chats. She's very sweet and no detectable LD, but I'm aware it's not always obvious.

They are Indian, to those asking.

To those who have said shouting can be normal in some cultures, thank you for that, but this isn't just shouting. This is one parent screaming at her DD, only to be interrupted by screaming (I mean screaming, very loud and high pitched) in return and wailing / crying. DD does this almost entirely in the same language, I wish she would in a bit of English so I could hear if she was okay. Although clearly she isn't.

I could definitely record.

DD is not at school at the moment. Mum is a SAHM, he works. So what we are hearing now isn't getting ready for school stress.

As I said in OP, it is basically every day, sometimes twice or three times a day. We might get one day of nothing but guaranteed something the next day. Minimum 5 times a week of screaming, wailing, shouting, crying...

DD appearance is fairly 'normal', no noticeable issues there but I dont see her in the garden anymore. They've removed their with lawn and planted loads of huge plants, so she doesn't play outside anymore. DH and I both thought this was a bit sad but each to their own ofcourse.

I had never thought about contacting the school, thank you so much to those who suggested that. I dont know any of their names but ofcourse I know the address, and I have seen them walk to school so I know which it is.

To those who replied to say what I have been hearing could be classed as 'normal' thank you also. Reading your examples has made me realise that what you describe is, in fact, completely different to what I am hearing, which is not at all normal. By any of your definitions. They only reply that came close was about the mum who brushed her child's hair and the Daughter would scream like she was in torture. Except ofcourse you never screamed back.

Thanks again! Phoning school today.

Well done @worriedneighbour1
I think school is a very good call. Poor kid!

My mornings can be very loud. I have an autistic DD who doesn't like going to school and will shout and stomp her feet. My DS has grown up copying this behaviour and likes to scream at the top of his lungs some mornings, which i can only imagine makes my neighbours wake up. I've explained to neighbours on both sides of me that my kids are SEN and apologise when I see them if its been a particularly loud morning. If someone reported us, I'd be devastated. I try my hardest to be considerate to the neighbours but at the same time I'd rather my daughter vent in her own way in a safe environment than be like that at school where kids will be mean etc. Not as clear cut but maybe knock on the door and ask if you're concerned?

Eight is still the golden and easy time in childhood

Not met a lot of 8 year olds then?

DD is not at school at the moment. Mum is a SAHM, he works. So what we are hearing now isn't getting ready for school stress

No, its probably home school stress, which is worse.

@MellowYellow101

My mornings can be very loud. I have an autistic DD who doesn't like going to school and will shout and stomp her feet. My DS has grown up copying this behaviour and likes to scream at the top of his lungs some mornings, which i can only imagine makes my neighbours wake up. I've explained to neighbours on both sides of me that my kids are SEN and apologise when I see them if its been a particularly loud morning. If someone reported us, I'd be devastated. I try my hardest to be considerate to the neighbours but at the same time I'd rather my daughter vent in her own way in a safe environment than be like that at school where kids will be mean etc. Not as clear cut but maybe knock on the door and ask if you're concerned?

You are missing the point - that the parent is screaming and yelling back, not very occasionally at their wits' end, but every day and sometimes a couple of times a day. That's what makes this of concern. At the very least, the parent is struggling to manage.

Good on you, OP. Poor little girl. I hope things get better for her.
Those of you saying people should just turn a blind eye or that it’s normal to scream at disabled kids are contemptible.

You're doing the right thing op. I wish someone had reported my family growing up. If mumsnet had been around then my mum would have been saying it was normal as dysfunctional families like to make out it's normal. It's not and is damaging

contrymary

Don't risk reporting it as abuse, it may turn out to be perfectly innocent. You say it's a foreign language so it might be a cultural thing, in some cultures violent arguments and screaming at the kids is more acceptable than it is here

But they are 'here' so not sure what that's supposed to mean? Are we supposed to look away and ignore for fear of offending? Just because it's a different culture it doesn't make it ok to shout and scream.

Many on here have said they wish someone had reported their parents as they had a horrible childhood. That is sad that they felt let down by adults who didn't want to interfere.