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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I can't buy you formula but il help you breastfeed ?

356 replies

zuptop · 14/01/2021 13:55

I have just seen this on one of the local Facebook groups . Can't help but feel this is adding pressure onto women who already have made decision to formula feed.

Something just doesn't sit right for me...
Although I am sure they believe they are being kind

"As well as donating items to a local food bank, I’d like to help parents who are struggling to afford infant formula. I can’t buy any for you but I can support you to maximise your breast milk production and therefore decrease how much formula you need to buy.
I’m a trained breastfeeding peer supporter and I’m part way through my breastfeeding counsellor studies"

So YABU- lady in question is just trying to help mums build milk supply or
YANBU- post is a little judge of formula and putting pressure on mums to breastfeed when they might not want to/ be able to.

OP posts:
sunsetorange · 16/01/2021 09:49

in fairness, you can see what this thread is titled. you cant then accuse the posters on it for being insensitive when they were putting there opinion across on what the OP actually asked. lots of people have suffered with struggles of breastfeeding and judgement but it doesnt cancel out the need for a conversation - I'm not going to apologise for my post because reading it back I cannot see anything I said that was targeted at you. now i am going to say something you wont like - you have come on this thread specifically to stir it up again and have flounced because people havent immediately agreed with you.

Bollss · 16/01/2021 09:50

@oblada

Food banks cannot offer infant formula due to the WHO code which the UK has signed up to (though in practice breaches are pretty unenforceable) which states that infant formula shouldn't be discounted or provided for free. This is to protect infants from harm and indeed promote breastfeeding. And to try and restore the balance damaged many years ago when formula was first introduced and was being pushed by the medical profession.

Militant is an odd word to use for breastfeeding supporters. I am a breastfeeding counsellor. I am passionate about supporting breastfeeding mothers but I wouldn't say I am militant and in my little world of breastfeeding counsellors I don't know any who would fit that word. We are keen to others who want our help but we're hardly going to go mothers who have already opted to formula feed. Or indeed bother anyone. We support mothers coming to us for help.

Ultimately mothers who feel bad when faced by breastfeeding 'material' are mothers who haven acknowledged/grieved their internal disappointment with not achieving their own breastfeeding goal. And we support those mothers too actually. The rest of the world cannot make anyone feel bad for something they have freely decided to do/not to do, thats just a bit ridiculous.

Ah yes protecting infants from harm by ensuring parents struggle to feed them. An excellent thing to do.

I 100% get not advertising it, not promoting it, but when a baby has always been ff, and mum is not producing milk, refusing to feed a baby of a struggling family is disgusting. It's protecting nobody.

oblada · 16/01/2021 09:58

Those parents will receive benefits that they can use to buy the formula. Let's not infantilise people, most of the benefit system is based on giving them money to make their own choices. The food Bank is an added extra (and a welcome one) through the charitable sector.

The problem with your reasoning is this - how do you only 'target' the mums who cannot breastfeed/babies that have already been on formula etc. The risk with offering formula in food banks / discounting it etc is that it can 'encourage' a mother to switch to formula, which isn't beneficial for her/baby in the long term if she is able to breastfeed. Hence the blanket rule.

Bollss · 16/01/2021 10:05

Ah so everyone who uses food banks is on benefits? You're showing your privilege there.

By having formula in food banks you're not promoting it. You're not encouraging anyone to give up bf. Why can it not just be that it's available if someone asks for it? You don't have to say to everyone oh do you want some formula? To everyone with a baby.

rorjee · 16/01/2021 10:10

Not just people that are on benefits that use food banks

oblada · 16/01/2021 10:11

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Ah so everyone who uses food banks is on benefits? You're showing your privilege there.

By having formula in food banks you're not promoting it. You're not encouraging anyone to give up bf. Why can it not just be that it's available if someone asks for it? You don't have to say to everyone oh do you want some formula? To everyone with a baby.

Lol I've worked for CAB for 4 yrs so I know a bit about the benefit system, food banks etc. Yes I am sure some who use food banks aren't on benefits but if they genuinely cannot afford food/formula then they should be in receipt of some benefits. If you not then there is issue with the benefit system surely and it needs to be addressed, and the charitable sector filling that gap on a temporary basis by providing formula isn't a solution surely.

If formula is available in food banks even if it has to be asked (there is a potential issue re dignity if mothers have to specifically ask for formula) it will be known and it can indeed suggest to mothers that they should use it.

In any event people much cleverer than me have drafted the WHO code for a reason and the UK has signed up to it... It wasn't me.

oblada · 16/01/2021 10:16

Also if a baby is indeed at medical risk then some special formula can be prescribed and that will be free under the NHS. Just to say the system isn't giving up on babies. Just saying that infant formula shouldn't be given for free/discounted/promoted. I see the rational personally. As with any rule/system I am sure sometimes it will lead to unfairness but no system is perfect, it is about balancing the pros and cons.

Bollss · 16/01/2021 10:18

Yes I am sure some who use food banks aren't on benefits but if they genuinely cannot afford food/formula then they should be in receipt of some benefits.

Mhm. For instance if me or dp lost our job we'd be entitled to a grand total of fuck all, but one income wouldn't cover our bills let alone food on top.

If you not then there is issue with the benefit system surely and it needs to be addressed, and the charitable sector filling that gap on a temporary basis by providing formula isn't a solution surely

Yes there is a huge issue, and no it's not a solution but it would ensure babies got fed. The government don't care about feeding poor people's babies, you're right.

If formula is available in food banks even if it has to be asked (there is a potential issue re dignity if mothers have to specifically ask for formula) it will be known and it can indeed suggest to mothers that they should use it

Yeah, asking (or maybe ticking a box) is much less dignified than not being able to feed your baby and having to ask family/friends anyway isn't it?

I'm sorry but I'll never agree with not feeding babies just in case some other people choose to switch feeding. After all one baby starving is soo much better than a few babies being fed in a less "optimal" way which of course they will be in likely 6 months or so anyway.

june2007 · 16/01/2021 10:25

Imagine aptamil donating to a food bank. Mum gets give a tub, next time she goes to buy she wants the same milk as she doesn,t want to keep on changing and guess what Aptamil is the most expensive. That is why we can,t except donatiions. And did someone further up seriously suggest trying to make a tub go further by offering child less?? (Maybe I read that wrong.)

Bollss · 16/01/2021 10:29

I was suggesting members of the public donating not the companies themselves. And any formula is better than no formula at all if you're struggling.

bellinisurge · 16/01/2021 10:40

"I’m sure if I’d had poor milk supply or baby was losing weight they would have suggested formula. "
Not for me they didn't. Just judgy bollocks - or that's how it felt to me when I was desperately vulnerable from post birth complications.
Words matter. Attitude matters.

oblada · 16/01/2021 10:41

Dont forget the rules only cover infant formula / first stage so up to 6months only.
In any event - I agree with the WHO code. I have read about quite a bit about the history of formula and I do know the benefit system to some extent. And with that knowledge I still agree. But it is not an exact science and absolutely understandable for others to disagree - feel free therefore to petition for a change!

JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows · 16/01/2021 10:43

@MrsFluffyMuff

YABU. Why is offering assistance to breastfeeding mothers seen as judgemental to formula feeders???
Any mention of breastfeeding these days - even when not in the context of BF vs FF - is apparently an 'attack' on formula feeders and we are all doing it to "make them feel guilty". Even on MN you can't even mention you're BF without being labelled smug. It's pathetic, people need to own their choices and stop judging themselves (as despite their melodrama no one else cares how others feed).
CecilyP · 16/01/2021 10:58

Even on MN you can't even mention you're BF without being labelled smug.

Of course you can.

It's pathetic, people need to own their choices and stop judging themselves (as despite their melodrama no one else cares how others feed).

You can’t have read this entire thread if you think that is the case. And this thread is not particularly bad!

TheNinny · 16/01/2021 11:12

If she was offering to BFeeding mothers there was no need to mention the formula. It was aimed at FFeeders.

AiryFairyMum · 16/01/2021 11:24

Most women combi feed so this is a big help.

bellinisurge · 16/01/2021 11:25

"people need to own their choices" - rather missing the point with that statement if you think that women move to ff because they are struggling with bf are CHOOSING that path.

Draineddraineddrained · 16/01/2021 11:54

@Caneloalvarez

Why do some people find it hard to accept that not everyone has a good experience and it's sometimes necessary to stop?

I don't dismiss your feelings or experience. However, that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of women out there who wod benefit from bf support. If no-one is allowed to offer or advertise it for fear of upsetting those who had s bad experience, how are we to prevent those women from being let down?

bellinisurge · 16/01/2021 12:31

If it's shoved in your face every time you have an encounter with the NHS ( with no nuance to help you ) that's counterproductive.

Snowvid19 · 16/01/2021 12:36

I think to remember Lucy Ruddle doing this earlier in the pandemic - offering to support supplementing/mixed feeding mums with increasing their milk supply to take off the financial burden associated with formula. It was a lovely idea. Lots of people bought her book about relaxation so that they could be given away to mums in need (who asked for them) too.

I think this is what this lady was trying to do. It just may have been a bit clumsily worded.

BertieBotts · 16/01/2021 13:21

It was explained earlier in the thread that families in need of formula and unable to afford can access free formula or money to buy it through other channels which are more appropriate for supporting the health of babies. For banks are great but they are run by volunteers without training in infant feeding. It's best people are referred to appropriate support.

What would be great is if that state support included breastfeeding support that was helpful! Unfortunately that really does fall to the realm of volunteers. Hence clumsily worded messages on Facebook.

Caneloalvarez · 16/01/2021 18:31

@Draineddraineddrained I don't think it's wrong to advertise breastfeeding help at all, I struggled with my first but really hope to try breastfeeding again with any future babies. To me the original FB post was almost a bit clickbaity, if I had seen that in my darkest bf moments and was struggling to afford formula I would have felt a glimmer of hope that that someone was offering help to get some. Luckily I wasn't struggling to afford formula but it makes me sad that not everyone can afford it. I'm sure that poorer people's issues with bf don't magically go away purely because they have no option other than breastfeeding. For an unlucky few, early breastfeeding experiences are linked to depression, anxiety and a feeling of failure for multiple reasons. It's not really acceptable to dismiss depression and anxiety except when it comes to breastfeeding apparently! As a previous poster said, words and attitude matter.

I think food banks should allow donations of the pre-made formula, that would eliminate the risk of it not being prepared properly? I'd certainly donate some!

I'm interested to know what people on this thread would have thought if the FB post had said something like this (I have edited the below)

"As well as donating items to a local food bank, I’d like to help parents who are struggling to afford infant formula. For info on XX vouchers/benefits you can access, you can find info on the link below, as well as this link which talks about safe preparation of formula.
Alternatively, if you are currently combi feeding, I can support you to maximise your breast milk production and therefore decrease how much formula you need to buy.
I’m a trained breastfeeding peer supporter and I’m part way through my breastfeeding counsellor studies"

SnuggyBuggy · 16/01/2021 18:53

I'd have just said that if you're combi feeding and want reduce or phase out formula I could offer advice on how to increase supply. I prefer simple straight to the point message's.

Draineddraineddrained · 18/01/2021 09:51

@Caneloalvarez

I do think how you phrased it is much better/more explicit, but that doesn't mean the way the original poster phrased it was wrong, and the OP of this thread was completely unjustified assuming she was being judgmental of exclusively formula feeding parents and wanting to persuade them to relactate! That was nowhere in what she wrote and that interpretation was entirely manufactured out of prejudice against those who support and advocate breastfeeding. Not everyone is brilliant at expressing themselves, you clearly are very articulate.

Obviously poorer people's issues with breastfeeding don't vanish by necessity; however poorer people are far less likely to successfully breastfeed not due to insurmountable physical issues but because they cannot afford to access frequently costly professional breastfeeding support and may be unaware of the voluntary organisations that exist dedicated to supporting women to feed, or may not have them active in their immediately local area (due to the demographics of bf in this country being skewed towards wealthy and white). Because NHS provision of bf support is so patchy and inadequate, if that is all you have access to you are more likely not to achieve what you want in terms of bf. So an initiative like this where someone is putting themselves out there to help specifically low-income families is actually brilliant, useful targeting of a group who might be particularly under-served.

It is never acceptable to dismiss depression and anxiety. But the fact remains parents who breastfeed to any degree for any length of time are a minority in this country and culture, and a minority who are marginalised by mainstream society and desperately need support. We can't prioritise the potential emotional reactions of a subset of a group in the vast majority (those who exclusively formula feed and are not happy with that) if it comes at the expense of those who could still benefit from support and avoid becoming part of that group. It would be like not publicising mental health support and advice to adolescents in schools because it might trigger those adolescents who have previously struggled with their mental health.

Something you will notice is that the only people who offer genuine understanding and support to mothers who have not been able to breastfeed as they wished to and suffered mentally and emotionally from this are breastfeeding advocates - those are the people who offer counselling for breastfeeding grief, run studies and write books on why it matters.

The flip side is mothers being told their loss "doesn't matter", that it "makes no difference", that all that matters is a healthy baby, that "fed is best" (as if the mother was ever considering not feeding her child!). It's the same dismissive language that is used to marginalise birth trauma ("all that matters is that baby is here safe and well") - it's predicated on the assumption women don't matter. This is not a view you will EVER encounter in the genuine breastfeeding advocacy world (and I'm not talking here about time-pressed community midwives who have been given an hour long BFI lecture and now think they are 'not allowed' to support mothers to formula feed).

BF advocacy is woman AND baby centred, as breastfeeding is a relationship and the pair are a dyad. The interests of one are recognised as the interests of the other, not set in opposition.

sortmylifeoutplease · 18/01/2021 19:28

Yanbu

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