to set a boundary with DH about yelling at our toddler?

[lapaverde]

My daughter is 1.5 years old, teething, and in a sleep regression - she is quite a handful to deal with at the moment, especially during lockdown as we both attempt to work full time and provide round the clock childcare. However, I am trying my best not to let her see my frustration or stress. My DH, on the other hand, has quite a temper. This has already caused conflict because he accuses me of being over-sensitive, but the issue I'm asking about concerns DD. The other day she was whining and DH wheeled on her and said, with fists clenched and in a sharp tone, 'Shut up!' She immediately started crying hysterically because we have never used that tone with her, ever.

I defused the situation but later, at a calm time, approached DH and said, "I know we are under a lot of stress and she can be frustrating, but you mustn't ever speak to her that way. It caused her a great deal of upset." He responded by: 1) accusing me of being unreasonable - 'all parents lose their temper,' and 2) holding him to a higher standard than I do myself. When I pointed out -accurately! - that I have never once raised my voice at her, he said, 'Well, you've made a long list of mistakes as a parent - shall I start elaborating them?'

I'm concerned because his reaction is so defensive. Surely he can see that it's not okay to frighten a toddler, no matter how difficult she's being! He claims he doesn't remember her crying, 'or if she was, who knows what it was about.' But I can't stop seeing her shocked little face right before she started to cry. DH is constantly harping about how I am conflict averse and can't deal with normal interaction - so AIBU here?

@tobedtoMNandfart

Seen your update.

He is attempting to punish you for standing your ground.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

This.

OP,
He knows well he is wrong but he wants to muddy the water.

This is a dreadfully stressful, abusive situation.

It is not your job to fix him.

You need to protect your mental health for yourself and that poor child.

Please reach out for support.
I would have huge concerns for both your safety.

Ringing 101 and registering your home and number.
Please look at going to stay with family if you can.

Please take this seriously.

You mentioning being from an abusive home makes me think your DH might have not been as aggressive as you've mentioned here.

As another poster put we don't know how he said it as we weren't there, however I have the opposite issue, my husband is from an emotionally and physically abusive background and anytime I raise my voice, even if I'm exasperation not anger he thinks I'm shouting and screaming (when I'm not) because he is so sensitive to it as it brings him back to childhood.

You sitting him down after does come off as quite patronizing so I'm not surprised he reacted like that, many get defensive when we are being or feel attacked, especially around our parenting as it's a sensitive subject.

Going forwards I would just stop him if and when it happens again, not wait till after, if it happens a lot then consider your options

The problem with asking MN is that each PP will inevitably bring their own experiences into it. And we didn't witness this. You did.

Ultimately you need to search your conscience here and act on that. Was he unreasonable? Did your daughter appear fearful? How likely is repeated incidents of this behaviour? What is your deal breaker? And then take the appropriate action to protect your DD.

I cannot personally compare verbal/emotional/psychological abuse with physical abuse. But I can tell you that verbal/emotional/psychological abuse is devastating, damages childhood and permanently changes the adult she will become.

ApocalypseBiscuits I don't really understand your post tbh. I'm the furthest thing away from an apologist you can get, having been beaten almost to death and raped repeatedly by my ex which lead to the conception of my eldest. I would never have put a child in any kind of abusive household and I left in the middle of the night as soon as I found out.

Everything you've stated in your last post is chilling.

Your H is going on the offensive to the point of threatening your livelihood by jeopardising your childcare agreement.

The minimising of what be did shows be has no intention of changing his ways.

This man is actively hostile to you and your DD.

I agree that couples therapy isn't a good idea. Your therapist should have recognized what is going on in your relationship and called a halt to the therapy.

You seem to be holding out hope that therapy is somehow going to result in your H being convinced by force of reason that he is wrong to abuse you and your baby. Or you are waiting for a professional to help you feel you have permission to make a decision to end this.

I don't think it's going to end that way. You need to start thinking about what you truly believe you deserve in a relationship, and it's not abuse.

cherrypie it's much more likely to work the other way round - a person from an abusive home will tend to find abuse normal.

As another poster put we don't know how he said it as we weren't there, however I have the opposite issue, my husband is from an emotionally and physically abusive background and anytime I raise my voice, even if I'm exasperation not anger he thinks I'm shouting and screaming (when I'm not) because he is so sensitive to it as it brings him back to childhood

I would be careful of this reasoning. I’m the same as your husband - yes I’m very sensitive to some of the things DH says to our kids but actually he can be unreasonable to them.
And if someone says you’re shouting and screaming - well how do the DCs react? The OP’s description sounded horrible. Abs maybe she’s primed to see horrible parenting for what it is because she’s experienced it first hand?

OP, I think your DH knew he was being a dick. Yes, no parent is perfect but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t try and be the best he can!!

@cherrypie111 On the contrary, being from an emotionally abusive upbringing warps your idea of abusive and makes you far MORE likely to get involved with an abusive man. As this board so adequately proves. Most women in abused relationships were from abusive homes/households. They see it as normal. Just read WaterOffADucksCrack's post for proof of that. Their yardstick of measuring abuse, is considerably longer because they have become desensitised to the extent they only see true physically violent attacks as abuse, they don't see the markers that are the lead up to it, such as clenched fists, which would have ANY mother fleeing the home.

I also don't understand why it is wrong to try to sit down with your husband and communicate with him, when you are BOTH calmer. After all, that is what everyone suggests. You should never try to confront in then and there, you wait til you've calmed down, then try to discuss the situation with calmer heads. I am not sure why you are suggesting someone doing the proper thing, the recommended thing of calming down and then sitting down to talk of parenting going forward as 'patronising'. Is communicating with your husband to seek solutions 'patronising' now? Wtf.

What's with posters on threads today trying to twist situations to blame women for abusive men? It's bloody scary.

OP, don't let people on here make you doubt yourself. Trust your instincts. Yes, it is stressful right now, but he is making the situation more stressful by manufacturing conflicts.

DP and i parent very differently, i am of the opinion my children are allowed an opinion and if they are upset even if its in the middle of being told off we have a cuddle, calm down then deal with the issue whereas he thinks im to soft and hes more of a go to the naughty step because you answered me back person so we have had to find a middle ground and 99% of the time i will back him up even if he is being harsher than i would be and he accepts that i will always always cuddle my children if they are upset and we discuss it calmly with each other away from the children HOWEVER on one occasion he completely lost his temper with our 5yr old (suspected asd) and towered over him whilst yelling at him to shut up, my 5yr old was terrified so i stepped in and told DP if he ever spoke to one of our children like that again he would be finding somewhere else to live then i took our son to a different room and calmed the situation. The difference between that situation and yours was that my DP came and apologised to our son within 5mins of me taking him out the room, he knew he had lost his temper and that he shouldnt have ever spoken to our son that way and he never has again.

YANBU to have stood up for your daughter and to have expected him to have apologised, my children know i will stand up for them even if it is against their dad, however every parent loses their temper sometimes and i think going straight to setting boundaries is a little unfair if this is a one off incident. He sounds extremely stressed and i think if he hasnt been a shouty aggressive person before then you need to be discussing why he is so stressed that he is shouting at you and now DD and how you can elevate some of that stress together. Its been a really tough year and i think even the strongest relationships have taken a bit of a battering.

@GarlicSoup

The boundary should be the front door with him on the outside of it permanently.

This ^

Cokie3 Show me where the actual fuck I have said clenching fists at a baby is ok. I explained as soon as a baby was in the mix I left as my instinct was to protect them. Victim blaming "people" like you make me sick to my stomach. My ex didn't know about the baby when I left.

I'm sure you'll be the perfect human if you're ever raped or almost killed. Honestly I feel sorry for you, something must be very wrong in your life to want to tear survivors down like you. I honestly hope you get the help you need

I had my dad round for an hour when ds was around 3 months so I could get a haircut. Got back home and I could hear ds crying and dad shouting 'STOP' at him over and over.

Didn't let him babysit again until he was much older...

Everyone has different limits when it comes to patience. Right now with lockdown mine are being tested more than they ever have been. It's a hard one. But I do think it's not ok to snap at your dd and you should talk about what to do when one of you feels like you're reaching that point.

@WaterOffADucksCrack I sincerely apologise. I confused you with another poster. I have asked for my post to be removed. I am mortified and would never knowingly hurt a victim of abuse. I am very sorry @WaterOffADucksCrack .

I also don't understand why it is wrong to try to sit down with your husband and communicate with him, when you are BOTH calmer. After all, that is what everyone suggests.

She has tried that, @Cokie3.

The result has been flat out denial of what happened/ refusal to accept responsibility, along with her H going on the attack against her.

She has mentioned her H's statements during the (very ill-advised) couples counseling they are having too; hostile to her, blaming, and accusatory.

This man is angry and controlling, and refuses to take on board her right to speak up for herself - if what she is saying about his behaviour doesn't accord with his own self image he attacks her, with the intent to silence her and keep on criticising her, shouting at her, and shouting at the baby.

@mathanxiety

I also don't understand why it is wrong to try to sit down with your husband and communicate with him, when you are BOTH calmer. After all, that is what everyone suggests.

She has tried that, @Cokie3.

The result has been flat out denial of what happened/ refusal to accept responsibility, along with her H going on the attack against her.

She has mentioned her H's statements during the (very ill-advised) couples counseling they are having too; hostile to her, blaming, and accusatory.

This man is angry and controlling, and refuses to take on board her right to speak up for herself - if what she is saying about his behaviour doesn't accord with his own self image he attacks her, with the intent to silence her and keep on criticising her, shouting at her, and shouting at the baby.

Yes I realise that, in fact I said it myself a few times earlier in this thread that she had tried to speak to her husband and he wouldn't listen. My reply to cherrypie111 was referencing that cherrypie111 seemed to think it was wrong for the OP to even sit down and try to talk to her husband, in the first place. Hence my reply to them.