to set a boundary with DH about yelling at our toddler?

[lapaverde]

My daughter is 1.5 years old, teething, and in a sleep regression - she is quite a handful to deal with at the moment, especially during lockdown as we both attempt to work full time and provide round the clock childcare. However, I am trying my best not to let her see my frustration or stress. My DH, on the other hand, has quite a temper. This has already caused conflict because he accuses me of being over-sensitive, but the issue I'm asking about concerns DD. The other day she was whining and DH wheeled on her and said, with fists clenched and in a sharp tone, 'Shut up!' She immediately started crying hysterically because we have never used that tone with her, ever.

I defused the situation but later, at a calm time, approached DH and said, "I know we are under a lot of stress and she can be frustrating, but you mustn't ever speak to her that way. It caused her a great deal of upset." He responded by: 1) accusing me of being unreasonable - 'all parents lose their temper,' and 2) holding him to a higher standard than I do myself. When I pointed out -accurately! - that I have never once raised my voice at her, he said, 'Well, you've made a long list of mistakes as a parent - shall I start elaborating them?'

I'm concerned because his reaction is so defensive. Surely he can see that it's not okay to frighten a toddler, no matter how difficult she's being! He claims he doesn't remember her crying, 'or if she was, who knows what it was about.' But I can't stop seeing her shocked little face right before she started to cry. DH is constantly harping about how I am conflict averse and can't deal with normal interaction - so AIBU here?

Wow he sounds horrible. Horrible to his baby daughter and horrible to his partner. That's not ok and I couldn't have someone like that around.

Sorry op in your first post yoh mentioned him wheeling on her what does that mean ?

YANBU and I think the issue is not only that he spoke to your baby that way but that he sees nothing wrong with it and that it’s an acceptable way to behave. He will do it again and will feel no regret whatsoever whereas most parents would feel awful if they’d frightened their child that way, especially a baby who really wouldn’t understand at all. I wouldn’t be able to let this go and I don’t think you should.

Sorry wheeled on her , you said what does that mean ?

I agree with others though that his lack of remorse is worrying , I have lost my shit with mine , but will apologise if I have overstepped the mark and yelled etc

I know we are under a lot of stress and she can be frustrating, but you mustn't ever speak to her that way. It caused her a great deal of upset.

Is that really what you said - it sounds so unnatural? And I agree that it will have felt like a telling-off and I don't know how constructive that is. He was clearly in the wrong, and it's clearly worrying that he can't have a conversation about that, but I don't think you opened the door to that conversation in the best way.

Everyone gets frustrated and stressed and occasionally snap at a child. However, if I did that, I would feel instantly bad over it, apologize and comfort them. I would also expect my husband to pick me up on it and vice versa. I step in if I start to hear frustration in his voice. The fact that he's so defensive is of concern. Of course, it doesn't mean that he's not taking on board what you have said, but even so, it's a really knobbish thing to do!

I think it depends how he usually behaves - from what you've written, it doesn't sound like he normally reacts like this to your daughter and I can imagine some people would react defensively if they felt they were being accused - however indirectly and unintentionally - of being abusive towards their own child. I would keep an eye on his behaviour and monitor whether he's shouting at her like this frequently.

What has happened to your childcare? It must be almost impossible to both work from home full-time while also trying to look after a child that young.

It's not the losing his temper that's the issue (although that is bad enough!) It's the immediate comeback about your parenting and his ' list ' of things you've done wrong.
I havent read the whole thread but I would bet my bottom dollar this isnt an isolated incident. I have experience of this kind of behaviour, be cautious.

If anyone shouted at my baby and told her to shut up, they would be out of the fucking door.

@MaMaD1990

Speaking to a baby like that - a big no no. BUT we all lose our shit with our kids sometimes and it sounds like life is pretty stressful at the moment. You come off as quite the angel which I suspect isn't totally right, so perhaps a bit of meeting in the middle might go down well. You were right to say he can't speak to your DD like that but you need to speak to him about 1. How he's feeling and 2. How better to support him and work together as a team. This also works the other way around too when you lose your shit (and I'm sure you will eventually).

This.

Many many threads on here about women losing their temper and shouting at their children. No one ever suggests they should be kicked out the house.

@Dontforgetyourbrolly

It's not the losing his temper that's the issue (although that is bad enough!) It's the immediate comeback about your parenting and his ' list ' of things you've done wrong. I havent read the whole thread but I would bet my bottom dollar this isnt an isolated incident. I have experience of this kind of behaviour, be cautious.

Is everyone else really so angelic that if their partner criticised a parenting mistake they'd made using the weird, therapy-speak, patronising tone that OP describes using that they wouldn't even be tempted to snap back 'oh, like you're so perfect'?!

She is only 1 and a half! Not even a toddler, still an infant. She is teething and in pain, that is extremely painful. The fact he approached her with fists clenched - a small little baby, is frightening. That he doesn't even know why - or care, why she is crying, is also frightening. You are too 'permissive'? How? She's only just out of being a newborn baby! A baby doesn't 'demand' anything other than food, a dry nappy, and comfort! Does he even understand that she is a BABY? And INFANT? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like he is talking about a 5 year old child at school. Not a tiny infant!

He sounds like he could easily 'lose control' and.....hurt her. For me, all it would take is him clenching his fists at a baby, and I would be OUT OF THERE! You are not over-reacting, if anything, you are underreacting. There is a serious and real risk he could hurt her. Many men become abusive during pregnancy/after and while the baby is young. The fact he shouts at you (so verbally abuses you) is enough reason for you to leave. He is emotionally abusing you and shouting at you on its own, without the baby even existing is bad. So even taking the baby out of the equation, he has been verbally abusing you and bullying/shouting you down. That is a dangerous and dysfunctional 'marriage'.

Being shouted at is frightening for ANY adult. Let alone a tiny helpless, defenceless baby, who is in pain and cannot speak so crying is the ONLY communication she has. But being so tiny and you see this scary angry monster bigger than you, looming over you, fists clenched and shouting at you, that poor little baby would have sensed that fear. Her own father would have seemed like a terrifying monster to her. She will now be afraid of him, will probably scream and cry at the sight of that terrifying monster, so he'll get annoyed at her screaming and crying and thus, the situation continues.

Please believe me; if you can get out of the house with the baby, do so. Or kick him out. You are both at risk of physical Domestic Violence. Your baby even more so. Please don't 'rationalise' this away - 'oh, this is the first time he yelled at her' etc, etc. It only STARTS with one 'first'. He has been verbally abusing you for a year or so. He is now clenching his fists around his own infant. PLEASE don't rationalise this, get out today! Do you have any friends you can go to, even your parents? You are allowed to leave during Covid if it is for safety/safeguarding reasons. Domestic violence - and yes, your situation is so very clearly that - is a mitigating reason.

If your husband won't listen to reason, you leave a letter for him to read so he cannot avoid reading your opinions without shutting you down, and you get the fuck out of that house. This is a serious safeguarding matter, and if neighbours caught on to the way he screams and threatens your baby, they could probably call social services. Please, neither you nor especially your baby are safe, don't assume 'he'll change' (they only get WORSE with intervention) or he won't hit or shake your baby. It is too late to have regrets after he has 'lost control' and did something to hurt her. DON'T TAKE THAT RISK. Get out now, please!

Is everyone else really so angelic that if their partner criticised a parenting mistake they'd made using the weird, therapy-speak, patronising tone that OP describes using that they wouldn't even be tempted to snap back 'oh, like you're so perfect'?!

I do agree with this to be honest. It's incredibly stressful trying to work from home with a little toddler like that and you are both bound to lose it sometimes.

I know I'd be pretty pissed off if my partner approached me to tell me off about snapping at my own child, even if I knew it wasn't the right thing to do. We all lose our shit sometimes.

@Cokie3 I genuinely can't tell if your post is serious or not?

[quote Hardbackwriter]@Cokie3 I genuinely can't tell if your post is serious or not?[/quote]
He is shouting down his wife, shouting at the baby, and approached the baby with fists clenched.

Is there something you cannot understand about that?

@Lightwindows

YANBU, we can all get frustrated at times but shouting shut up at a toddler is not on. If my toddler is doing sth I don't want him to do I tell him to stop, with a sterner voice if he's ignoring me, but not yelling. It also won't achieve anything. He needs to work on keeping a lid on his temper around her if he's very stressed, did his own parents lose their tempers with him when he was little, does he think this is normal? I assume he means you are conflict averse around adults, thinks you're not assertive enough or shy? This is completely different to interacting with toddlers, YANBU to.challenge him on this. And his reaction to highlight your parenting mistakes? Did he just say this in the heat of the.moment or mean it? Think you need to have discussion about expectations when he is calm.

Is this serious? Did you miss the point where he had his fists clenched at the baby?? ? OP could be everything her H says and more. But once he clenched his fists at a baby - that has gone past the point of no return.

To the posters pointing out my patronizing tone - yup, I see that now, and that's on me. Still not sure how to move forward as DH wants me to apologize for "the mess I created" and won't engage on his behaviour towards DD. I did say sorry for my tone.

@Hugoslavia

Everyone gets frustrated and stressed and occasionally snap at a child. However, if I did that, I would feel instantly bad over it, apologize and comfort them. I would also expect my husband to pick me up on it and vice versa. I step in if I start to hear frustration in his voice. The fact that he's so defensive is of concern. Of course, it doesn't mean that he's not taking on board what you have said, but even so, it's a really knobbish thing to do!

Yes exactly. My husband would have felt devastated if he ever approached our baby like that, and would have been almost in tears saying 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry' while picking up our girl and comforting her. That he seem to have no prick of conscience, didn't feel bad about it after (like any normal dad would), and instead dismissed why she was crying, didn't care why she was crying, instead doubled down and abused his wife trying to turn it on her shows he is cold as ice and has no fatherly feelings towards his baby girl.

YANBU OP to bring it up. Its obviously not unheard of for parents to "loose their shit" as someone put it but if you cannot then acknowledge it's not appropriate to shout at a one year old then there is an issue.

@Cokie3 you need to calm down a bit. Nowhere did OP say that he clenched his fists at the baby, simply that they were clenched (which is a reaction some people have when they tense up when annoyed). He wasn't waving his fists in the childs face as far as I can see. A measured and calm response is needed here, not an overly hyped emotional response. Remember you are a stranger on the internet and only the OP can make a decision about her baby and relationship. Don't jump to conclusions and think you know it all, it's not helpful.

Give him more time OP and let him strop it out. Assuming this happened not long ago he may be reeling on his behaviour and reflecting that back on you. You've said enough, so maybe when DD is down for bed say "I don't want to fall out, but we need to talk about how we can parent her and what specifically you're finding hard so we can work something out". Once he comes round a bit and gets talking, make your suggestions general and not about him specifically.

However, over lockdown, he's shouted at me extremely frequently

I wouldn’t want to live with someone who treated me like that, let alone someone who shouts at toddlers with their fists clenched. I’d rather be single.
Do you find yourself ‘walking on eggshells’ and trying to humour him?

What happens when your daughter gets older? What if she is actually annoying or a bit naughty? Are you going to be ok with her getting ‘shouted’ at by an adult male.

OP, think about where you will be in ten years time? Do you think your partners temper will have disappeared or is it part of his personality.

@lapaverde

To the posters pointing out my patronizing tone - yup, I see that now, and that's on me. Still not sure how to move forward as DH wants me to apologize for "the mess I created" and won't engage on his behaviour towards DD. I did say sorry for my tone.

So your H refuses to apologise to his baby girl or to you, and blames you for his abuse. "You made me do it", basically, yeah?

OP, this 'man' is a narcissistic (and yes it's overused but in this scenario it describes him completely) and has no fatherly feelings, no remorse, and is gaslighting you, telling you it's your fault he lost control, screamed at a baby teething and approached her with his fists clenched. So, typical abuser language look what YOU created', 'look what YOU made me do'. OP, I cannot plead with you more than I have, but even your last post proves you are in an abusive relationship. You need to tell him that you are leaving until HE apologises. Even then, for me at least, once he clenched his fists at a defenceless little baby, there would be no return from that. There is no coming back from that - ever. Please, get out for your own sake. Even if you were snidely patronising, that still doesn't excuse him approaching an infant with clenched fists. Nothing can ever compare to that.

@lapaverde I’d be asking DH to get anger management and if he refuses I’d be deciding whether to stay in the relationship. Neither you or your child should have to put up with being shouted at.