Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Original poster

to set a boundary with DH about yelling at our toddler?

191 replies

lapaverde · 13/01/2021 14:22

My daughter is 1.5 years old, teething, and in a sleep regression - she is quite a handful to deal with at the moment, especially during lockdown as we both attempt to work full time and provide round the clock childcare. However, I am trying my best not to let her see my frustration or stress. My DH, on the other hand, has quite a temper. This has already caused conflict because he accuses me of being over-sensitive, but the issue I'm asking about concerns DD. The other day she was whining and DH wheeled on her and said, with fists clenched and in a sharp tone, 'Shut up!' She immediately started crying hysterically because we have never used that tone with her, ever.

I defused the situation but later, at a calm time, approached DH and said, "I know we are under a lot of stress and she can be frustrating, but you mustn't ever speak to her that way. It caused her a great deal of upset." He responded by: 1) accusing me of being unreasonable - 'all parents lose their temper,' and 2) holding him to a higher standard than I do myself. When I pointed out -accurately! - that I have never once raised my voice at her, he said, 'Well, you've made a long list of mistakes as a parent - shall I start elaborating them?'

I'm concerned because his reaction is so defensive. Surely he can see that it's not okay to frighten a toddler, no matter how difficult she's being! He claims he doesn't remember her crying, 'or if she was, who knows what it was about.' But I can't stop seeing her shocked little face right before she started to cry. DH is constantly harping about how I am conflict averse and can't deal with normal interaction - so AIBU here?

OP posts:

MaMaD1990 · 13/01/2021 18:02

@Cokie3 you're entitled to your view. I just don't agree with you. Probably best left at that.

violetbunny · 13/01/2021 18:04

Does he lose this temper like that at work? Say, with his boss? If not then he doesn't have an anger management problem and you should stop treating it as such. It means he's an abusive bully.

AWeeBit · 13/01/2021 18:06

This is the thin edge of the wedge.

His shouting at a baby is one thing but to not apologise and then pivot to blame you is quite another. Does he often refuse to accept his culpability, refuse to apologise and then blame you for his behaviour?

I would not wait for him to get angry again, to be honest. It isn't fair on your daughter, for a start; children remain challenging for many years, in different ways. Will he raise his fist at her when she's 4? 8? 16?

AWeeBit · 13/01/2021 18:07

@violetbunny

Does he lose this temper like that at work? Say, with his boss? If not then he doesn't have an anger management problem and you should stop treating it as such. It means he's an abusive bully.

This as well.

Daphnise · 13/01/2021 18:12

Yes he was in the wrong- but the child is clearly very annoying, and in your account, cannot be controlled.

So both of you have to put up with it indefinitely, it would seem.

BlueSussex · 13/01/2021 18:25

Anger management or LTB

EuropeanRoller · 13/01/2021 18:27

Mine went through a stage like this. (I mean my DH, not my DC.) We nearly ended up splitting up because of it - I felt I was having to protect the DC from their own father and had had enough of them not feeling safe and relaxed in their own home.

In my DH's case he was stressed and basically had no life apart from us and work (he worked from home too). His standard responses when challenged were a) I'm not that bad, b) you're not perfect and c) you should be backing me up.

Anyway, it happened many times, we had many conversations about it and eventually in his calmer moments he did agree that this wasn't the parent he wanted to be. We had counselling together and he had some therapy by himself too.

We are several years on now and everything is good again and has been for ages, he is calm and happy and has a great relationship with the DC.

In summary, this is unlikely to be a one-off, but it is possible to change things. Hard work though, you have my sympathies

Cauterize · 13/01/2021 18:53

Why is he demanding that you apologise?!

He's a twat. Either he can't see the error of his ways, or he's so stubborn and defensive that he'll never admit when he's in the wrong.

Lose/lose really

mathanxiety · 13/01/2021 19:31

'but the child is clearly very annoying, and in your account, cannot be controlled.'

I have officially seen it all now.

This is an 18 month old. It's up to adults around toddlers that age to grow the fuck up and behave themselves.

Nobody has to 'put up' with a man who has a temper.

SnackSizeRaisin · 13/01/2021 19:34

The shouting at you is no more acceptable than shouting at the baby. But you did say it's only been a problem in the last year. That could be due to lockdown or having a baby or both.
I think you need to sit down and have a calm conversation, say that you don't feel he's happy, you don't like the shouting, ask what might help. Hopefully he will admit there's an issue and suggest some solutions. Having a toddler is hard and lockdown is hard, I don't think the situation is irredeemable but he has to want to improve things. If he denies there's an issue or reacts angrily, you have to decide whether to stay with him, bearing in mind the fact that even if he doesn't shout at your child, seeing you the victim of shouting is in itself damaging for her.
Can you put your daughter in nursery for a couple of days a week? It would get her out of the way into a safe environment and give you both a bit of space

SnackSizeRaisin · 13/01/2021 19:36

Yes he was in the wrong- but the child is clearly very annoying, and in your account, cannot be controlled.

So both of you have to put up with it indefinitely, it would seem.

Yes..that's the nature of toddlers! Hopefully they eventually grow out of it though!

mathanxiety · 13/01/2021 19:41

He has been shouting at you for a year because he thinks he can get away with it, @lapaverde.

You are, in his mind, stuck there with no option but to give him the satisfaction of inflicting his wrath on you, and now that he knows that terrifying the baby will cause you to feel terrified too and to beg and plead, you can expect more of the same.

This will not get better. He is getting what he wants from the sort of relationship he has turned this into. He has no incentive whatsoever to change his ways.

A man who shouts with clenched fists at a toddler and will not admit a shred of remorse is a man to call 'my abusive ex husband'.

DH is constantly harping about how I am conflict averse and can't deal with normal interaction
The sort of angry outburst (both shouting at you and shouting at the baby) he is trying to paint as 'normal interaction' is abusive and completely abnormal.
He is gaslighting you.

Chicchicchicchiclana · 13/01/2021 19:43

@Daphnise

Yes he was in the wrong- but the child is clearly very annoying, and in your account, cannot be controlled.

So both of you have to put up with it indefinitely, it would seem.

18 month olds cannot be controlled, no. What a comment!

mathanxiety · 13/01/2021 19:49

Can you put your daughter in nursery for a couple of days a week? It would get her out of the way into a safe environment and give you both a bit of space

No, please do not do this.

The baby has just suffered a terrifying experience at the hands of a parent. Being placed in a nursery (or any other alternative placement) right now would have a negative emotional and psychological impact. The baby needs reassurance and comfort directly from her mother.

There is a strong indication from the OP's description of the baby that the shouting in general is having a bad impact on the baby. The sleep regression and general fretfulness in the context of a description of a father who shouts at the mother are worrying. Babies and toddlers can pick up vibes from their environments.

If the baby's need for a safe environment is so urgent that a nursery placement is advised, then that should make the OP focus all of her attention on the massive problem that needs to be addressed, and the problem is not the baby's behaviour.

Safety from the sight of an angry adult needs to be provided by the OP by leaving or by throwing out the person making the baby's home unsafe.

Original poster

lapaverde · 13/01/2021 20:05

Thanks again to everyone for your responses - it has given me a lot to think about.
Re: the effects on DD, DH does not shout at me when she is around - it is confined to her naptimes or when she's in bed. But, as some have said, there is a possibility she picks up on the atmosphere, which I need to take seriously.

DH and I are individual and couples therapy. It is a positive sign that he agreed to go. He is very angry in the sessions. He feels my over-sensitivity stifles his ability to express normal anger. This is a big part of why I feel so unsure about the situation - perhaps I am making mountains out of molehills, or interpreting normal nagging as yelling, because I'm so conflict averse? But I saw DD's response to his anger with her. It's not about me - she was scared! And that's not OK!

Anyway, I appreciate all your input on this - it is really helpful to me, especially because I worry about my emotional radar being off.

OP posts:

Original poster

lapaverde · 13/01/2021 20:07

P.S. DD was in nursery, but we had multiple quarantines in a row for Covid in her daycare, so she is home for the foreseeable future. This is a big part of what's added to the general stress.

OP posts:

AWeeBit · 13/01/2021 20:12

He's been getting more and more angry with you since your DD was born, more or less? That's a really typical pattern of abusive behaviour afraid.

AWeeBit · 13/01/2021 20:13

*I'm afraid

DenisetheMenace · 13/01/2021 20:16

Shouting isn’t ideal but the clenched fists are very alarming.
.
Has he ever hit you?

StacySoloman · 13/01/2021 20:16

So he chooses when he's going to shout at you? He doesn't have a problem managing his anger, he's completely in control of when he expresses it?

Original poster

lapaverde · 13/01/2021 20:19

Before we were married I would never had said anger was an issue. It did start to get worse around when I got pregnant, but there were other stressors (job) around then too. But the real acceleration has been in the past 8 or 9 months.

He has never physically harmed me or shown any inclination of doing so. In some ways I feel it would be easier to draw a red line if something like that happened, and I would doubt myself less (not that I actually want it to come to that, of course!)

It's just so difficult, with bloody Covid and all the attendant stress (we have no family near), to know what's a bad response to an extraordinary situation, and what's an ingrained issue in the relationship.

OP posts:

DenisetheMenace · 13/01/2021 20:20

His was a bad response. She’s a baby.

ParisJeTAime · 13/01/2021 20:21

Do you think you might be happier apart? It doesn't sound like there is much good about you being together tbh.

Deadringer · 13/01/2021 20:24

Op i agree with pps, its not so much about the original outburst, this is a very stressful time for everyone, but his refusal to accept that what he did was wrong, and then slagging you off for all the stuff you have apparently done wrong. That is shitty behaviour. We all make mistakes when we are raising children, but a good parent learns by them, and trys to improve. I have lived with a shouty man with a quick temper for a long, long time. He has many very good points as a husband and a father, and he has got better over the years, but i deeply regret that i didn't take more of a stand when my dc where small. I should have shown him the door very early on, or at least made him understand that his behaviour wasn't acceptable, but i was young, had very little confidence, and didn't have mumsnet for guidance. Do not second guess yourself on this, your instincts are spot on, stand your ground, he curbs his temper or he's out.

Streamside · 13/01/2021 20:25

Would you feel confident enough to leave him by himself with her? I can't imagine parenting with an adult with such little self control, lockdown is no excuse.Awful things happen to people everyday but they don't clench their fists and shout at babies. Would anger management classes be an option?

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8